A question on the key inputs

At this stage I will most likly be going for the C2000 series key inputs around the place.

I do however like the look of the flat metal plate ones in stainless.

What I am wondering is if I get the C2000 ones, can the "modules" on the back be popped out and put into an empty metal plate frame like you can with normal switches/modules?

Another thing, when we were doing the kitchen I was talking to my sparky about the metal plate ones, and he was _really_ not keen on them because of more issues mounting them and that they cannot be direct fixed to the upstand on the back of the countertop like the normal plates can. How hard are the metal plates to mount where there was a conventional flushbox sitting back behind the plasterboard. I wont be attempting to put them on any solid surfaces so lack of direct fixing isnt isnt a problem (for now at least) - I guess I can always go crazy with a jigsaw if I want to swap the kitchen sockets out for metal plates to match at a later stage.

 

The C2000 MIGHT be able to be used with add-on S/S plate, but they aren't designed that way. I'll let CIS people answer that one.

Standard flush-mount metal-plate switches & powerpoints are dreadful to install. You have to set the back box / plate back EXACTLY the right distance from the finished wall surface. Then, you screw the switch unit INTO the wall, but with the front face of that plastic part exactly flush with the finished wall (tiles, right?) so that the stainless plate will fit properly.

The electricians HATE them because they cannot always anticipate the finished wall surface level. Even on a plain 10mm gyprock wall, what if there's a bit of filler over the plaster, or perhaps they end up using cheap 9mm plasterboard from Thailand?

I have exactly that in my own kitchen, although they are HPM. What I did was use pieces of soft wood as mounting blocks, then slowly carved them out with a chisel (testing continuously) until I got the recess depth correct. It was extremely painful and time consuming. In some cases I have strips of cardboard glued in there to pack it back out again because I carved too far!

The new Clipsal Reflections switches are much better. The (special) back box has a couple of screw adjusters inside it. You can mount the box anywhere from 0 to 20mm back from the finished wall surface. Then, after the wall is completed you screw the adjuster thingies in and out until the guts of the switch is exactly flush with the wall surface. Then the face clicks on with magnets (no screws).

I'd suggest using Reflections switches, they really do solve all the installation problems. However, I don't think there's a matching powerpoint available. Note that if you use Reflections you must tell your electrician at least 50 times in writing that he must also fit the matching Reflections backboxes. And put it in the contract that he will agree to pay for new plasterboard if he forgets and installs standard backboxes (which they almost all do)

Another alternative is those new SC series "almost flush" plates. They look great, and have matching Cbus and Power Outlets. They aren't completely flush, but are pretty close to flush. Pricing is close to C2000 prices, and they look very nice in the (special order) silver plastic or stainless plates. The SC series only requires a special CUTOUT, but can use standard mounting hardware.

Hope that helps, John

 

Yeah, what he said when I asked again is that the flex of the plastic flushboxes means that the metal plate ones rarely sit flush even if you do get the box in the right place. Sounds like it will equal the hastles I had mounting the 110volt US outlets in the wall on standard kiwi flushboxes. I ended up stacking washers on the screw holding it to the flushbox to get the outlet in the right place so the face would screw onto it and be right (Apparanlty they put there wallbox face flush with the wall lining).. The metal plate ones do look a lot nicer in the kitchen or other worktop area I feel, and the new countertop will be a brushed stainless one so its the ideal choice (what would be cooler would be to have the exact hole punched out of the upstand for the powerpoint and use _that_ as the plate, but the logistics behind that would make it unworkable) At the moment we have regular hpm outlets with the metal coverplate on them, but I feel the hpm metal covers look lousy since you can see obvious marks where they have being stamped out. Since clipsal dont seem to have a huge selection in the wholesalers I go to I havent seen there metal plates in the flesh yet to compare the detailing of, but they cant be any worse!! Im not too fussed on the different appreance between metal plate outlets vs the cbus switches - the only switches on the bench will be for things like the dishwasher, waste disposer hob and oven and the others that I have forgotten. none of those will be cbussed so will stick with the normal switches. Ive written off the SC series because I dont like the positioning of the switches on the powerpoints in the middle, it makes it look a little off balance IMHO and I think it would be harder to get to when there are a couple of wallwarts plugged into it.

I think I will just go for it with the metal plates for the kitchen power when the new counter goes in and the light will change when I do the cbus down there, I can afford to spend days getting them alligned just right whereas I can see why a sparky would detest them. I will get some normal C2000 metal plates (just a couple of each finish in) so I can see what they look like in reaility and may just go for that thru the rest of the house. The chrome one looks like it may do, Reflections switches are too much for my liking, authough they do have the option of up to 8 on the plate vs 4, but I dont think I will need that many anywhere around the place and unless I can retrofit the box it would be more trouble then its worth. So at the mo I have to decide if I bite the bullet and go metal plate everywhere or else I get the C2000 and hope I can swap the mech out later if possible.

 

In regards to the flush power points metal range there has been some development in the new version of these.Product: BSL25A is the part number for a GPO these are a standard size plate cut outs not like the older B series where the power point was larger than the switch. The BSL range is basically a classic base with the metal plate fixed to it allowing any standard wall box or clip for fixing with ease. These match extremely well with the reflection range, with our last install we used the BSL range for data ,power and reflection for C-Bus switches which received praise from the architect. This range was released last quarter of last year but be warned they are not cheap.

 

It is amazing that almost every Architect-designed house specifies flat S/S plates, yet most of the products on the market are s**t!

Hey - that router idea is an excellent one - and I actually used that system to install a pet-door recently (the wall was thicker than the pet door, so it had to be recessed into the frame).

If you go with the flush plates, do NOT use a metal wallbox - instead make a wooden block (plywood or customwood, NOT chipboard) and mount that behind the wall surface. Make sure that the plate is mounted a bit too far "forward" so that the switchplate would be sticking out too far.

Then get a router (buy a cheap one, they are a very handy toy anyway) and set the depth of cut EXACTLY the same as the thickness of the plastic switch mechanism. Zap the router around in the hole so that the depth is correct, then use wood screws to fix the plastic plate.

That will be easy to install, and get the appearance you desire.

John

PS: I'm changing a lot of my house's power outlets from C2000 to SC series and at first I found the central switches a bit wierd. But I haven't found any problems with accessing them even with plug-packs. The reason is that the SC switches seem to be further away from the socket than the C2000 ones.

PPS: The HPM double power outlets use an Excel backing plate which is very similar to the C2000 in style. So, it's not 2 singles like you described for the old Clipsal ones, NickD