Alarm and CBUS options

I was wondering what the consensus was on the options out there for CBUS aware alarm panels - what do most recommend? And what sort of integration is possible?


Many thanks...

 

Hi BRJ,

Depending on your application there are two main alarm panels I would suggest.
1. Clipsal Homesafe panel (http://www3.clipsal.com/cis/lit_installinstructions_homesafe.php3) is good for a 16 zone system, with many security features or
2. The Ness M1 (http://www.ness.com.au/m1/m1info.htm) for a system that has intergrated security and automation features complete with logic programming.

Regards,

GCK

 

The Comfort panel (www.cytech.biz) is probably the best integrated with C-bus. M1 has a C-bus interface available through Ness but it is relatively limited. OK for simple lighting control, but not full 2-way status polling etc. It also clashes with the ethernet module for use of the main board serial port. You can connect it to a serial expander, but then you lose more functionality. It works fine for me- if the area is alarmed and the main entry is breached and it is dark, the light by the keypad comes on. when you disarm using that keypad, lights in living areas ramp up. That's probably the sort of stuff most people will do. If you combine it with a C-bus PAC, you can do most things.

 

Is there any documentation on the C-Bus capabilities of the M1?

I had a look on the NESS site and didn't see anything.

 

The Manual for the Ness M1 says that it is possible to connect it via RS-232 Serial, but there is also another panel made by ness called the "Ness D16x C-Bus Enabled Control Panel" which is a 16 Zone panel, that has been C-Bus certified, never touched it myself, but it looks like it might do the job, and looks like it is 2-way communication capable with C-Bus. Have a look Here, it is the 4th panel down.

Hope this helps

 

Rohan,

The Ness M1 Serial Port expander manual can be downloaded form the trade section of the website. You need to get a username and password from the office. (However this link should enable you to download a copy. http://www.ness.com.au/m1/dealer/doc/101-214_M1XSP_manual.pdf)

The M1 C-Bus interface can connect to the main Serial Port on the panel, however if you use the Ethernet module to this port then you can connect via a serial port expander. There is no real loss of function when it is connected via a serial port expander.

The current version of the M1 interface does not provide two way control, however if this is required it can easily be done via the use of a C-Bus CPI.!

GCK.

 

Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately the link still required a username/password.

Am I correct in understanding that the C-Bus interface is only one way (outbound from M1) but you can use a PCI in it's place to get 2 way?

So the one way limitation is a function of the hardware and not the M1's software?

 

The Ness D16x C-Bus Enabled Control Panel is the same as the Clipsal badged Homesafe 16 zone C-Bus Enabled panel. This panel has a C-Bus SIM sitting on the panel serial bus and is two way coms / control. The Ness version is fully recongised as "C-Bus Enabled". For domestic and small commercial jobs of not more than 16 zones / inputs and three points of access control (Ness Prox) they are rock solid solutions. The keypads (limit 3) have rubberised back lit buttons and a backlit LCD display for zone and panel status, which is important for easy user interface.

 

<i>There is no real loss of function when it is connected via a serial port expander. </i>

Lots of status reporting is available via the main board port but not via the expander. I believe this is to do with bandwidth- the board connector has very high bandwidth, via the expander yoiu're sharing the bus with all the keypads, zone expanders etc. Also, via the expander all addresses above 192 are handled as scenes, not individual lights. In fairness that will only bite people with >164 c-bus groups.

Having said that, Ness says they are working on improved integration, much of which will be available via interface firmware updates. I look forward to it!

But what we really need is the ability to move the ethernet module to the expander, leaving the main port for lighting control.

 

The Ness M1 interface is fully C-Bus enabled.

You are correct, the limitation of being one way is a funtion of the hardware and not the M1's software.

The interface currently is only one way (outbound from the M1) however you can read the ASCII from a CPI and feed this into the M1 to give you two way. Most people I have spoken to have not seen this as a major problem in real life even though the 2 way is the way to go in the future.

The new interface Ness are working on will provide full two way via the Ness interface. This will also allow the ability to have a group address activated by a C-Bus light switch and then activate M1 outputs (hardware or software), or any other M1 function.

GCK

 

jr,

Yes you are corrct in saying the Main serial port is "auto flowing" so any event that occurs on the M1 can be transmitted from this port, where the transmission from the serial ports need to be "told" to transmit. (e.g. Turn light on, turn light off etc) This is done to reduce the 'traffic' on the databus.

The M1 supports individual lights (C-Bus Group address) 1-192 and then 64 scenes. Given that each C-Bus network can only support 100 group addresses (to the best of my knowledge) then 192 individual lights should not be a problem in 95% of projects.

The Ethernet module (and new touchscreens due for release within the next 3-4 weeks) require the main serial port and this cannot be changed. I can't see any major problem in using the serial port expander for connection to the C-Bus interface as there is no loss of functions when using it.!! Is there anything that I am missing why you would prefer to use the Ethernet module on the serial expander.?

GCK.

 

<i>Given that each C-Bus network can only support 100 group addresses (to the best of my knowledge) then 192 individual lights should not be a problem in 95% of projects. </i>

Agreed- for most of us, a theoretical difference.

<i> I can't see any major problem in using the serial port expander for connection to the C-Bus interface as there is no loss of functions when using it.!!</i>

It isn't a criticism, just an observation. for the future, people who have expensive c-bus touchscreens may wonder how their floorplan screens can display all activity if the c-bus interface doesn't get it all. I suppose one quick fix is to use M1 touchscreens instead! ;-)

 

100 GA's? Where did you get that information from? Or are you referring to the ELK only being able to support 100 GA's for each network?

 

Hi Pete,

No the M1 will support up to 256 lights (or in C-Bus interfae 256 Group addresses.

I maybe wrong but it is my understanding that each C-Bus network can only support 100 GA's.?

GCK

 

Hi Greg,

No that information is NOT correct.

There is no limitation of the number of GA's on a network.

The limitation you are thinking of is the number of physical units (input / output) on a network. Whilst there is no SPECIAL number; 100 is the rule of thumb. In fact typically the number of units on a network can range from 80 > 120.

 

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the correction and clarification and I stand corrected.

If there is a requirement for more than our 256 lights / group addresses we are working on our Security Management Software (Due for release July / August - Give or take a few months as we all know how delays in release can occur) that allows up to 4 M1's to be intergrated.!

Greg

 

Greg,

Is the 256 GA limitation per network? per application? or per project?

 

I have just got my M1G and C-Bus interface installed and running and it seems to do the job nicely. Yes it does not poll Cbus because of the serial expander but if you are only after events on the M1 triggering GA's on Cbus, it can be quite effective, especially utilising the logic of the M1. Hopefully the 2-way version is only around the corner.

 

PSC, that's not quite clear enough... my understanding is as follows :

In theory a C-Bus Project supports 256 Networks, each can contain 256 Application Addresses, with 256 Group Addresses per Application. Minus 1 on the Lighting Application 56, since 255 is the GA of units shipped from the factory (ie: un-programmed).

However, many Application Addresses are reserved (see link below)...

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855

 

Control Panel

Guys,

The ness range is ok for a basic install but i'd be installing a Concept 4000 security and access control panel which is CBUS enabled (RS232). It is a really flexible system however the end user need to be switched on to get the full use of it