I have followed this forum for a few years now and have seen many time people recomend that an all off should be done via a scene instead of the application. While I have always used the aoolication method, I find myself needing to use a scene as I need one of the loads to remain on. I created a scene, but it only allows for 10 groups to be included. In my case there are a few more than 10 groups that I want to turn off. How can I do this - I dont have a PAC or a touchscreen to use logic either. Mick