C-bus Dimmer Problem

Right. Long story short - had a C-bus lighting system installed in 2009 on the ground floor of my property. We have 3 No. 4 channel dimmers in the enclosure & a seperate external dimmer. Also an enclosure mounted 12 way relay. All supplied & fitted by a Trained C-bus installer who will not return to fix the problem. After 2 years of waiting time to move on. Clipsal have not been over helpful!

On one of the enclosure mounted dimmers there is a problem where the lights either do not come on at all when buttons on switch plate or dimmer are pushed or they come on & after a time they begin to flash. Been a problem since fitted. Of the 4 channels 3 are in use with the following lights -

Channel 1 - 4 No. pendant lights - 50w halogen - 240v
Channel 3 - 2 No pendant lights - 40w ordinary candle lamps - 240v
Channel 4 - 8 No. downlights - 35w halogen - 12v - electronic dimmable transformers.

Channel 2 did have 8 No. low energy downlights wired to it but these made a ticking sound whilst turned off & also flashed intermitantly. These have been removed from the system. I believe they should never have been wired to a dimmer.

Please - any advice of where to start or can anyone recommend an installer somewhere on Norfolk/Suffolk/Cambridgeshire border to put the problem right for a reasonable cost?

Thank you in advance.

Ollie

 

This tells us that the network has a fundamental communication problem. If it has been this way from the beginning, the network was probably mis-configured or possible mis-wired from day 1. You can test the quality of the communication on your network by downloading the C-Bus Diagnostic Utility, connecting it to the C-Bus network and running the Traffic Analyser feature. You should not be seeing any communication errors, except the odd 1 or 2. The message from the switch is not being successfully received by the dimmer. It's time to check all the basics of the network communication (network voltage, burden settings, number of units on network, etc, etc)

The ticking/flashing of the 8 downlights installed on channel 2 suggests that either the transformers used weren't compatible with the type of dimmer used, the load capacitance limit for the channel was exceeded (300nF), one of the transformers had a fault or the channel was overloaded.

There are 2 types of DIN-mounted 4-channel dimmer in the Clipsal C-Bus range: A Leading Edge dimmer and a Universal dimmer. The Universal type is much more suited to electronic-type ballasts. If the leading edge dimmer is used with electronic transformers it may well work (but compatibility may be patchy) but the lifetime of the transformers will typically be shorter. The Univeral dimmer also operates silently when running eletronic transformer type loads. The compatibilty of electronic transformers and leading edge dimmers can sometimes be improved by fitting a device Clipsal sell called a 32EIND. The Universal dimmer does cost more than the Leading Edge type, so these things are often trade-offs.

 

With a little patience and time you can easily learn a few tricks about CBus.

1) There are load limits on the dimmer channels. Make sure those are being observed.

2) Programming is simple in the basic sense. 90% of what people usually want you are able to learn in a short amount of time.

3) You can install the programming software for free and work logically through it. All you need is a connection to the network through a WISER or Network interface.

Many installers do not install the network interface or the software so clients have to start with a "blank slate" or depend on the installer.

I have helped all of my clients to be self reliant on making changes to their CBus. Many of the things people want to change are simply combinations and time delays assigned to a switch.

Clipsal will do all it can to help you. There may be some hardware missing which you may need to look at installing. I purchased a network analyser tool a long time ago and it paid for itself on the first troubleshooting.

Sounds like the network burden is wrong in the dimmer coding and it sounds like the network is not fully commissioned. Whenever people have problems from the first day it means the job isnt finished.

 

Sorry to bring this up again but I still have the problems. I have tried several times to use the Diagnostic Utility but it will not comunicate with the system. My friendly electrician, who knows little of this system, tells me the channels are not overloaded or even near their limits. There are no transformers on any of the lights as they are all mains voltage the original post was wrong as the 12v downlights are on a seperate dimmer. The original Clipsal registered & trained installer is no longer in business. Clipsal were not that interested themselves & gave me the number of another installer who basically wanted to sell me an AV system before he came to visit, & charge me ?500 up front.

I would like my system to work properly. I am happy to pay a reasonable rate to have someone put it right & show me how to adjust the settings myself. At the moment the system is an expensive embaressment! Please, any localish installers to the Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Suffolk border please get in touch if you are able to finish off this install. Otherwise it will all be on eBay shortly!

Thanks & regards.

Ollie

 

Hello Ollie
From Australia I can't help on site but if you describe how you are trying to connect to the CBus network someone may be able to help you with the diagnostic utility.
Have you used CBus Toolkit before?

 

Hi Ollie,

from not so sunny Wales - always raining here
im sorry to hear about your problems, I have installed a couple of systems and find the kit to be reliable, even if a little expensive

If you force the outputs on (via the button on the front of the dimmer) does the corresponding lighting circuit work?

If I can help your welcome to contact me.
wish I was a little closer to come and have a look.

 

I would like to reiterate that the fundamental issue seems to be a basic communication issue on the C-Bus network. It has nothing to do with what type of loads are connected to the dimmers. The fact that the diagnostic utility will not communicate with the system seems to reinforce that idea (assuming the correct settings have been used).

Whilst it's impossible to say anything definitive from the other side of the world, the first thing to check is that there is a burden enabled on the network in the output device at unit address 001. This will require scanning the C-Bus network using C-Bus Toolkit and looking at the configuration of the units.

The flickering issue with the low energy lamps is a separate issue, and simply suggests that the particular units used are not compatible with phase control dimming.

The communication issue should be very easy to solve, provided the installer has stuck to the wiring recommendations.