C-bus jobs and training

I have heard there are plenty of jobs requiring c-bus skills. Is this true? What type of jobs are they? Is this true for the Sydney region? Do they pay well? I have an IT background including programming, analysis and management. What training would I require? Thanks

 

Why won't anybody answer me?

 

heh

Clipsal C-Bus is an electrical product.

You require, at a minimum, an electrical licence to install the equipment.

I believe, although an IT back ground is great, it really isn't up to speed with what I would be personally looking for if I was hire staff.

Just to mention a few things that come to mind, I would be looking at the following skill set.

1. A licenced qualified unrestricted A grade Electrical Mechanic.

2. At least a Basic Certificate in Computer Systems and Electronics.

3. Fault finding experience, not only in electrical, but also Computer systems and electronics. The ability to use test equipment, not just a multi meter.

4. Motor Control, including fault finding and design (Industrial Back Ground)

5. Domestic, Commercial and Industrial Experience in Electrical work, not just the theory, but also installation, design and fault finding.

6. At least a Basic Certificate in Robotics and Mechatronics, with experience in both.

7. PLC knowledge. (I never had the opportunity to play with these *sigh* I'll just keep playing with Minder )

8. Industrial control experience, including hydraulics, pneumatics and mechanical aptitude skills, including fault finding.

9. General knowledge of what is available in the way of product in the electrical industry at a high level, from the basic GPO through to products such as contactors, relays, sensors, IR curtains etc.

10. Experience in Computer software i.e.: Windows 95 - XP including, Server versions, as well as other software such as MS project. Complete a format and install of an operating system.

11. Proven experience in project management of an electrical installation
(3 million+ at a minimum)

12. Strong Internet skills and knowledge of how DNS servers work.

13. Data and telephony experience, setting up a LAN not only in wiring but also software. To be able to configure firewall routers for connection to the internet. Also an understanding of dynamic and static ip addresses.

14. Completion in all the Clipsal CIS courses that is currently available on C-Bus product and experience in the entire product.

15. And of course all the usual. Communications skills, well spoken blah blah blah.

Yes it is a tall order. I believe this is what is required to be able to complete an installation of a C-Bus system competently, amongst other things.

My suggestion to you, is that you approach integrators and see if they are looking for IT people. Enroll yourself into an electronics course at your local TAFE College. Also get in contact with you local Clipsal CIS sales rep and get onto all the C-Bus courses you can.

 

What, all that and no brain surgery or rocket science?

The way I read it was he was looking to be employed. I have seen IT people adapt very well to aspects of HA and C-Bus, particularly with new products such as the PAC now coming out.

Granted an IT person might not be great a pulling cables, but then I know some very good electricians that wouldnt know how to turn a computer on.

And I do think hydraulics & pneumatics is a bit over the top either way.

Regards

Rohan

 

Rohan
For someone to have all those skills they would have to be 50 + years old
The number of people who would have the total skills mentioned you could count on one hand.......

Frank

 

Tall order CTS.
I know maybe 70% of what you are asking.
Has been learnt from an electrical background,industrial background, data background, security background,Home Automation background.

I hope you are paying big money for what you ask, otherwise i guess your new employees will be ex employees very soon as they will find somewhere else to go. If they had all the skils you askedfor HA would bore them very quickly and they would find another job.

Home automation and C-Bus isn't as someone else suggested rocket science but it does require a certain skill set. It needs someone who is a good thinker and can think outside the square at times.

Electrical background, an interest in PC's, Audio/Video, Security and someone keen on learning would be what I would look for in an employee..

Cheers.

 

Obviously you are trying to scare the poor guy away from the industry.
I manage a commercial building construction company and have a construction only background. I have a house full of c bus products and After loosing patience with my so called C Bus Expert Installer (who chose my project to learn how to do advanced programing on hourly rate) i decided to see how hard this really was. I completed the C Bus training course and with my limited electrical knowledge, can now program most clipsal products. Of course i can not do installations, but i have a good knowledge of hardware set up, wiring and system design. I have on several occasions provided design and programing assistance to contractors who apparently specialise?
I do not proclaim to be an expert by any means, however think the qulaifications listed above sound better suited for the next shuttle mission, rather than entry level C Bus, which is what the initial enquiry was.
My advice, if a construction guru can magage it, i am sure you can.

 

Thanks for every one of your replies - it's good to hear various opinions. I'm 46, quite active and handy with a few electrical items (PCs, lightglobes! etc.), reasonably technical minded, smart enough (I have a degree in Comp. Sc.) and very keen to get stuck into it. If I did the C-Bus course what are my chances of getting full-time (or part-time with plenty of hours) employment and what would be a typical hourly rate? Again my thanks for your thorough replies.

 

Howdi browns,
What part of the world are you in? The fact is that there remains quite a large vacuum of knowledge on the ground or at the coal face. Employers in the automation industry are more often than not looking for someone to fill the gaps in their every growing businesses.
There will always be a position in the market from entry level installers willing to learn the ropes and have a salary that reflects their knowledge level. I would not be too discouraged from giving it a go. Anything is possible. Your location in the world will determine the market strength and therefore your ability to enter into the automation arena.
My advice would be to get a course or 3 under your belt and get familiar with the programming knowledge required. Hunt around, ask billions of questions and don?t be discouraged if its really what you want to do.
Cheers

 

I'd say give it a go. If you can get on with a decent sized intergrator you would probably have enough work just programming etc.
A problem maybe trying to find work with smaller installers. They might expect you to do fit off as well, unfortunately without an electricians licence this may be very hard to do.

From what I see in the industry (living in a large regional town) There is c-bus work out there but not enough for a full time programmer. If you live in a capital city you may find there are installers which need a full time programmer. HAve you approached Large Hi-fi shops. Some of them are getting into home automation in a big way, requiring c-bus programming skills plus much more. I recently was involved in a job using Crestron and was impressed by the flexiability of what it could do. It also came at a large programming cost.

Why not buy a heap of gear and install c-bus in your own house. I think (and once again don't flame as it is only my opinion) anyone installing c-bus should have it installed in their home. That way you get a good feel for what it can and cant do. Plus it gives you something to test ideas on for customer sites.
Installing it in your own house will give you some good experience as well.

 

Give it a go, you have nothing to lose but your sanity

http://training.clipsal.com/

Browns, go here to find out more about C-bus training.

There are many opertunities in Home and Building Automation and Lighting Control. Everbody has to start somewhere (the first C-bus 'installation' I did was working showboards for an exhibition). C-bus jobs cover a wide spectrum from simple lighting control in domestic installations through to some of the biggest sports stadiums in the World (ie the new Wembley in UK). I know of a few guys with IT backgrounds who have set themselves up to do the programming only on sites that the installer only wants to do the cabling and product fit off, this obviously requires the programmer to become closely involved with the project to make sure the customers requirments are met and that the right product goes in the right position. In other cases larger installation companies may be in a position to have staff specalising in cirtain aspects of the installation and would be interested in someone happy to concentrate just on the programming while the tech sales go out and get and specify new jobs and the installers get on with running cables and screwing things to the wall

 

Just to add my 2 penneth.

I am currently working on a large (32,000 capacity) football stadium. I have personally designed and programmed the entire lighting control system for the ground, the stands, the concourse, function suites and the large exhibition hall attached.

My background is IT and I currently have only 6 of the 15 requirements that CTS look for (including well presented etc...)

The only electrical knowledge I have is from an A-level in physics many, many moons ago and is limited to a basic understanding of how it works so I can communicate with a sparky. Most of the larger contracts I have worked on are with electrical contractors who pull the cable, terminate the live contacts etc to the drawings we provide. We simply design, program and commision the c-bus equipment.

CTS' s list is a huge requirement and honestly speaking, most reasonable sized integrators will have the ability to spread those requirements over a range of personnel rather than requiring each employee to multitask to such an extent.

On the training side, go for the basics first, get in with a small integrator and expand your knowledge on the job. Once you have the fundamentals, go for the intermediate, repeat as above and if it for you go for the advanced training. I have done the UK based C-bus courses and to be honest I have learnt more from just playing with the kit than I did in training (but that is always the way). Just waiting for the PAC to be available in the UK so I can really have a good play

 

Kidding right

Whilst I believe one always needs to know what they are doing whether they are repairing space shuttles, running multi-million dollar operations, driving dump trucks or heaven forbid installing CBUS / HA Systems, I don't believe , we need to be so enarmoured with our own skills that we scare off those seeking to develop the aformentioned awareness.

I therefore feel compelled to address the Job Specs published in this thread and I apologise for my cynicism herein. I hope it brings a smile in this game of apparent life and death in which we play.

For clarity, I will prefix the published specs with the ubiquitous asterix and in blue.

** You require, at a minimum, an electrical licence to install the equipment. http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/newreply.php#
Big Grin

Which bit needs the electrical licence? The 8 hours of design, the day of cable pulling, hour of cabinet installation, half day Module installation, the half day crimping and testing, the programming or the hour checking that the electrical cabling complies with the Code and the half day attaching the light sockets and mains to the CBus?


***I believe, although an IT back ground is great, it really isn't up to speed with what I would be personally looking for if I was hire staff.

An IT background will only help you turn on the lapthingy, connect the youessbee whatsit to the conveyence so you can throw up (upload) the ENIGMA encoding at blindingly fast transmission speeds. Otherwise IT would be basically useless.


***Just to mention a few things that come to mind, I would be looking at the following skill set.
****1. A licenced qualified unrestricted A grade Electrical Mechanic.
As I said in my first point, this guy can inspect and connect for sure, but where else can I get value from him $60 per hour?

***2. At least a Basic Certificate in Computer Systems and Electronics.***
May help you to understand how the on button works on the lapthingy. Won't help you understand why they chose to dye cbus cable pink!

***3. Fault finding experience, not only in electrical, but also Computer systems and electronics. The ability to use test equipment, not just a multi meter.
Residential Cabling 101 will cover that bit off. Few companies offering a day or so course.

**4. Motor Control, including fault finding and design (Industrial Back Ground)
So you control your motor to get home 4.30am and still get on the Forum in one piece. Conversely, if the motorised curtain you designed does not work plug another one in, if that don't work plug a light in. (multi-meter?) If that works, send the curtains back. Too damn expensive for what they are anyway!!

**5. Domestic, Commercial and Industrial Experience in Electrical work, not just the theory, but also installation, design and fault finding.
Seems we all gotta start at the bottom and do some installation and fault finding. Fair qualifications required for a cable monkey??


**6. At least a Basic Certificate in Robotics and Mechatronics, with experience in both.
Robotics and Mechatronics would be useless but fun. Maybe you could design using a solonoid and an actuator that will only open the lunch box when the job is done! Unless of course you have been training AIBO to take over from the Monkey!! Is there a union representing cable monkies?

**7. PLC knowledge. (I never had the opportunity to play with these *sigh* I'll just keep playing with Minder )
PLC Knowledge is looked for, because we might need to uninstall beta in favour of version 167839.123424 and if you don't know what a PLC looks like you cant pullem. Maybe AIBO the robot dog could take em.

**8. Industrial control experience, including hydraulics, pneumatics and mechanical aptitude skills, including fault finding.
Industrial Control is certainly the top of the ladder in the HA game, hell they even developed their own language. ziippish I guess they can order lunch in ziippish and we can't copy em or something.

**9. General knowledge of what is available in the way of product in the electrical industry at a high level, from the basic GPO through to products such as contactors, relays, sensors, IR curtains etc.
AKA Ability to read and familairise your self with information!

**10. Experience in Computer software i.e.: Windows 95 - XP including, Server versions, as well as other software such as MS project. Complete a format and install of an operating system.
We pushing the boundaries here of credibility here, IT Background would be great but not up to speed. (We need a damn typist)


**11. Proven experience in project management of an electrical installation (3 million+ at a minimum)
So for all those who have finished managing their 3 million dollar projects, guess who is looking for a cable jockey!

**
12. Strong Internet skills and knowledge of how DNS servers work.
After all the Cbus system will communicate effectively via the internet... won't it.... soon?

**13. Data and telephony experience, setting up a LAN not only in wiring but also software. To be able to configure firewall routers for connection to the internet. Also an understanding of dynamic and static ip addresses.
You see you need to know the difference between data, phone lines and the yucky pink cables. Good idea to brush up on crimping here.

**14. Completion in all the Clipsal CIS courses that is currently available on C-Bus product and experience in the entire product.
Undertaking all the courses just burdens you. Do the skew that suits the job you are doing and learn from the genius' you will be employed by.

**15. And of course all the usual. Communications skills, well spoken blah blah blah.
You forgot promiscuous and heavy drinking girlfriend....

**Yes it is a tall order. I believe this is what is required to be able to complete an installation of a C-Bus system competently, amongst other things.

**My suggestion to you, is that you approach integrators and see if they are looking for IT people. Enroll yourself into an electronics course at your local TAFE College. Also get in contact with you local Clipsal CIS sales rep and get onto all the C-Bus courses you can.

Conversely you might have a Basic Wiring certificate Sneider have em over two odd days. You need to buy a crimper and know how to use it. Ok kidding yourself get a test tool too.
Screwdriver would be nice. Hell a schmick electrical one. Unless they can only be used once you can produce a certificate of authority, MSDS and current Test and Check certificate. Let alone valid completion of the usage module at the University of Gepps Cross truck stop.
Then you wanna borrow a laptop, log into the training link using your internet knowledge on the cis page and follow the bouncing ball. If you pass that stage, you may get a call but call anywhay and do the basic courses. Go to CITC and get yourself a green card, a plastic helmet, some steel capped shoes and you are clear to go.
If you cabled well, when the millionaire sparky that just retired after two years with CTP comes to inspect and connect, you simply walk round with him even picking up the socket and hand it too him. He may offer an ever so subtle smile if you had already stripped the wire and undone the 3 engineerd screws for him.
At this point your task is a simple one ; don't touch the sparky bits, they hurt.... lotz

 

I therefore feel compelled to address the Job Specs published in this thread and I apologise for my cynicism herein. I hope it brings a smile in this game of apparent life and death in which we play.

Maybe the logic was mixed up....should be have this OR that OR that instead of this AND THAT and THAT........;-))

Frank

 

go fo it

SH** I have the skills CTS requires for CBus except

blah blah blah

where can I get trained on this, so I can start installing CBus


Hi Browns

Go for it, go on the Clipsal training - that will give you some gear to get you started - as well as introduce you to people also starting out - great to the networking

With IT skills you should find it easy to program the cbus, Homegate, pascal controller etc. Most jobs these days also involve setting up networks, PCs, firewalls etc, so once again your It skill will help.

There a plenty of electricians out there moving into Cbus, looking for people with programing skill.

This is an exciting time for the Home integration industry, equipment prices are going down, functionality is going up, and public awareness is increasing all the time.

have fun and hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

 

middle aged student

I agree with you all. We would all be middle aged by the time we could competently install C-Bus if we based our abilities on CTS's list.
The fact that CTS believes the requirements he listed are required to program C-Bus is a little daunting. CTS has only been programming C-Bus now for about 18 months.
Phoneman, you question the requirement to hold a current electrical mechanics license to cable and install C-Bus. In Australia it is a requirement that any electrical work undertaken involving cabling or modifications to, is required to be only undertaken by a licensed electrician.
Although i tend to disagree with many of the qualifications needed as listed by CTS, the one i am passionate about is the requirement for the installation to be undertaken by a fully qualified tradesman.
More than one person has been killed or seriously injured by "experts" who believe they are handymen and are willing to not only put themselves at risk, but worse, possibly endanger others.
Browns, don't be dismayed by the list CTS posted, I've been in this industry for 15 years, and know hundreds of installers Australia wide.
They all come from different walks of life, sparkies, IT "propeller heads", AV techs, and believe it or not, there are even some very talented female programmers out there.
My advice, speak to your local CIS rep, get in a training course, and have a go. You've got nothing to lose.

Good luck

 

http://training.clipsal.com/

a lot of information about C-bus training as mentioned earlier