C-Gate

Hi,

For the last week or so I have not been able to connect to any C-bus network with Toolkit.

Today I've upgraded to 1.2.2 but still no success.
Yes, I did check my comm port settings. I even uninstalled and reinstalled the comm port.
I am able to connect to other non C-bus products via the comm port.
I uninstalled and re-installed Toolkit as well.

The message on C-gate looks suspect however. It says the hardware initialization failed. I am running only on single networks currently.
This message does not appear on my desktop when I open up Toolkit. (It is on my laptop)

The "sentinel" file on my laptop under C-gate2 directory was missing and I copied it from desktop, also no success.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

The hardware intialisation message refers to the (as you stated) Sentinal driver. This Sentinal driver is only required if you have a hardware license dongle connected to your PC.

If you only have one network this should not affect your connection as C-Gate provides licenses for two networks without the purchase of a network key (dongle).

Richo recently posted some links to the Sentinal driver's page -

http://www.safenet-inc.com/support/tech/sentinel.asp

http://www.safenet-inc.com/support/files/ReadMe721.pdf

http://www.safenet-inc.com/support/compinfo.asp

Installing the new drivers will fix the hardware initialisation message that you are encountering.

 

Thanks Peter,

I got that part fixed, but I still have a problem now where my pc does not want to connect to the network.

Here's a quick list of what I did.
I tested my comm port with the Minderpro panel and it works 100%.
I then tried to connect to C-bus with Toolkit, no success.
I also tried with C-bus V2.7.10 and could not connect.
Everything was uninstalled and re-installed, also without success.

From my desktop I connect 100%, without hassle.

If I couldn't connect to the Minderpro as well, I would easily believe that the comm port is faulty, but seeing that I can, I am in two minds now.

Is there anyone who had some similar snag.

Thanks
Brodsky

 

I am definitely no expert at all with this stuff, but have had my own share of problems.

You are confusing me with youir commenst re: "PC" - is the Laptop a problem but Desktop PC is OK?

Couple of things to check...

Cgate's trying to connect via Com 1... is that the port that has the Serial cable connected to it? In both BIOS and in Windows?

With my laptop I have all manner of problems because the Com Port (on USB dongle thingy) keeps changing... Are you doing "Scan Network" (which looks at the Default Port ONLY), or are you doing a "Search For Networks" ? Search always works better for me, although it is unbelieveably slower.

What are the responses in the Cbus (rather than Cgate) window? Does it have Failed Identify message, or Unknown Response or what? Sometimes (always on my laptop) Toolkit advises it's seen a PCI and cannot identify the project, where in reality it is trying to connect to my Internal Modem !

Does the PCI actually WORK? In other words, is there Power and Cbus present (both lights on steady)?

Also, if it's a hardware Comm Port - try forcing it off Com1 (which shares an interrupt with Com3) to Com 2 or 4, which might be used for some internal devices / assignments. For example, BIOS might use the Com1 assignment for a PS/2 Mouse port emulation or something wierd like that? And what about in BIOS, is there a setting in there that enables the Com Port? Watch out for Internal Modems, IR devices, other stuff that might have grabbed onto (or have been assigned by Windows) the Com Port that Cgate is also trying to use.

I personally hate the way Windows (automagically) tries to fix up Ports - I much prefer to set everything in BIOS and then Windows leaves it all alone. Any old school people out there will know what I mean by that

We can probably help more, but need to know what exactly you have in hardware, and how it's configured in Windows...

Good luck, John

 

Just adding... if it is the laptop having the problems, and you are using a USB->Comm device... then just because the Com Port works with Minder is no guarantee that it will work in Toolkit.

From what I have read on this forum, almost every problem with Toolkit / V2 software and Laptops relates to the laptop not having an inbuilt Com Port, and therefore trying to connect via a non-compatible USB->Comm device.

By non-compatible, I mean that the resultant Com Port has some wierdness compared with the proper standards for a "real" RS232 connection. For example, they might work OK with a Internet Modem, or even a Minder, but will not work with Cbus.

By the way - I am using one of these ATEN brand USB things : http://www.aten.ch/products/usb/e12_uc232a.php
I've had no problem except for the fact that Windows re-allocates a different Com Port every single time I plug it in (and it's random - sometimes Port 3, or 4, or even Com7 once!). So, every single time I use Toolkit I need to do a "Search For Networks" or I cannot connect to Cbus.

Also note that Toolkit stores the Com Port in the *.XML project file when you close / save each project. So, if you simply try to open your project and the ComPort has changed... it won't connect. The only solution is to do a "Search For Networks" and see what Ports come up in the list. Cgate is only the "transport mechanism" between the devices, so you need to ignore it's responses for now and advise us what Toolkit is reporting back to you

On the attached Pics you can see my setup :

Failed Identify.JPG
After a "Search For Networks" - see how my Toolkit finds a PCI on Com3, then after a few minutes it gives up connecting to it... and then looks and finds a PCI on Com 5.

System - Com3.JPG
The reason it cannot connect to the PCI on Com3 is because that is actually the Toshiba's Internal Modem! You can see the opened Windows the method to determine which Com Port that is being used by the Modem - note that this Port (Com3) is NOT listed in the Ports listing in Device Manager! You can see the real USB->Com thingy listed on Com5 under the Ports Listing on the Device Manager Tree.

That wierdness (I hope I have explained it clearly) was enough to cause me days and days of grief trying to get Toolkit to connect...

Hope that helps, John

PS: I wonder if CIS will ever make a Cbus USB interface - the whole issue of using RS232 is a complete PITA considering most laptops don't use Com Ports any longer... and not many people use a "normal" Desktop PC for Cbus. As far as i am concerned, the USB standards are pretty much standardised and therefore shouldn't be hard to develop and interface for.

Alternatively, why doesn't CIS just re-sell a suitable USB->Comm device as an accessory?

 

We have, it's called a Pascal Automation Controller. This can be used a USB "PCI". However, I suppose dedicating a PAC as a PCI is a bit expensive.

As to releasing a dedicated USB PCI, it is policy that we don't discuss unreleased products that may or may not be in development.

 

Now that we know it's in development, what's the release date? don't worry we won't hold you to it

We'll just add another 2 years to it

Or arn't you able to talk about product release dates due in say June / July 2006?

 

"Oh behaaave"

 

Ouch!

 

Hi John,

"You are confusing me with youir commenst re: "PC" - is the Laptop a problem but Desktop PC is OK?"

Using exactly the same setup, cable, PCI and s/w, my desktop PC with hardware serial port works flwlessly, but my laptop (also with hardware serial port, no PCMCIA converter) will not open network.

I have checked my BIOS settings, and it is set to "auto".
In my windows Device Manager, I have also made sure that the serial port is set to COM1. I have even uninstalled internal modem and parallel port to make sure it's out of the way.
All this was done after I had my serial port tested by a local pc whiz and he confirmed that the serial port is ok.

"So, every single time I use Toolkit I need to do a "Search For Networks" or I cannot connect to Cbus."

I did set up my default interface in Toolkit for "Serial" and "COM1" and did the "Search for Networks" It scans the COM ports and shows on both (serial and USB) "PCI not found"

When I just try to open the network of the project, it times out after a while and says "Network failed to open"

Now, I did everything I can think of, i.e. uninstall and re-install serial port, change port number, uninstall and re-install Toolkit and Java. I even tried connecting with a PAC, also with no success. My PCI seems ok by looking at the LED's, and it works with the desktop pc, so I reckon that eliminates the PCI being faulty.

Another thing that bugs me, is that even if I change the default interface settings in Toolkit to anything other than COM1, C-gate shows that it try to open COM1. Why is that?

If you want to see any snapshots of anything, let me know and I'll post it here.

Thanks so far.

Brodsky

 

Do the PCI LED's flash at all when your laptop is attempting to open the Network?

You could mail the Toolkit Log file to us, that might help diagnose the problem.. attempt to open the network, let it fail, close Toolkit, locate the file C:\Clipsal\Toolkit\toolkit.ccl and mail it me at [email protected], it might have some hints in it..

 

I use a DELL laptop here for software development and it to has a "hardware" com port ... and it is useless. Barely works with anything and certainly not good for C-Bus. I have given up on trying to get it to do anything.I suspect if I opened the case I would see a piece of string between the port and the motherboard.

I use a PCMCIA serial card for Nirt programming and a USB<->RS232 convertor for C-Bus (actually I often run about 4 of them concurrently and they work great). We use and recommend the Dontronics USB<->RS232 convertors.

 

What a hassle, nobody could say you haven't tried hard to resolve this one! Like Richo, I also reckon the Comm Port in the laptop is faulty. Since everything else is the same as the PC, there can be no other reason for the PCI not to work.

I still reckon you should do some sniffing around in Device manager. Laptops have all manner of wierd things inside that grab onto IRQs and Interrupts. Many have mouses that use Com1, whilst still leaving Com1 open as a port in device manager. There's no way that Cbus will work in parallel with a mouse!

Have you tried forcing the Com Port to Com 2 in BIOS?

If all else fails, I guess you'll have to try a USB or other interface...

I reckon Cbus simply doesn't like Laptops. They were pretty rare when the original product was developed, and there was no such thing as a USB device in those days

 

Hi guys,

I'm attaching the screen shots of the C-gate message as well as the "search for networks" screen. The logfile is on it's way. (I'm working on COM 1)

My PCI's "unit comms" LED is either lit steady or it flashes steady at about 1 Hz. It is like that whether I try to connect to the network or not. It doesn't change at all.

Just for info. I did the same test again on laptop and desktop. Desktop works fine, laptop not. Switching PCI's also did not solve the problem.

Connection to Minderpro alarm system is ok, as well as connection to colour touch screen via crossover cable.

Looks like I will have to resort to PCMCIA >> RS232 converter??

Any new tricks to try will be welcomed, I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks so far
Brodsky

 

Hi brodsky

I think you previously mentioned a USB serial port, which is showing up as Com10 on that screen capture... What happens if you connect to that one, rather than Com1?

JC

 

Hi guys,

I tried 4 different serial cables up to now, with the same results.
If I change the serial port address to anything else than COM1, I still have no luck.

As I mentioned earlier, I find it strange that C-gate shows me it opens Com1 even if the port is set as something else. Is this right?

I'm attaching the logfile here, Duncan because your server seems to kick it out. I got it back twice.

Thanks

 

Hi,

For what it's worth we had some similar problems yesterday when trying to upload some changes to our CTC. The installer was unable to establish a conection with his laptop (brand unknown) so we tried with mine (Dell). First, though, we downloaded from the Clipsal supplied CD ver 3.4. PICED.

Beautiful, connection was easy, could transfer the new project across no problems, could also control the CTC from my laptop directly.

Closed everything down, then the installer went to the C-Bus control panel to make some physical changes with the wiring and he used his computer (which had toolkit) to update the changes in the project.

Back to the CTC, download Toolkit from the CD onto my computer and let's run PICED so we can connect and update the CTC.

The CD with the downloads was dated 2/02/06 and the installer had been assured that this was the latest software available - anyone seeing where this is going yet?

Could not connect. Could not even run PICED. The error message was along the lines check that C-Gate V2.3 (build 2064) was needed. By installing Toolkit from the CD, our version of C-Gate was V 2.3.44 (build 2077). The command interface error messsages were pretty much the same as mentioned earlier in this topic.

Of course this had to happen late on a Friday afternoon but the guys from Tech support on the 1300 number were very helpful and gave me enough clues so that by 1.00am this morning I had been able to scrape every bit of software downloaded from the CD and reloaded new software from the Clipsal website.

Things are still not perfect, but I find that if I start the C-Gate program first and then run PICED it all works ok.

I think that one of the problems was that the version of Toolkit on the CD is not the most recent.

cheers

 

maybe useless, but disable all kind of firewall (by norton, win xp,...etc) and try once....