C Touch Connection problem

Background to C Touch problem

Minder can be connected from Desktop PC thru serial port at a distance of 15 metres.
C Bus can be connected from Desktop PC thru serial port and Minder at a distance of 15 metres.
C Bus can be connected from Desktop PC direct thru serial port and PCI at a distance of 15 metres.

C Touch CAN be connected from PC serial port direct at a distance of 2 metres.

C Touch can NOT be connected through C Bus PCI (only one metre from PC to C Bus PCI) at a distance of 5 metres between C Bus and C Touch.

Have tried three different laptops plus desktop (carted the desktop down three floors)

Two experienced integrators have given up and as the customer I am (to put it mildly) a little annoyed at the varying opinions received from Clipsal via the integrators.

I do not want to have to remove the C Touch screen from the wall every time SWMBO wants a change. For this reason the idea was to have the PCI on C Bus connected to a dedicated serial port on the desktop PC to solve this problem (even if the download time was lengthy) and the other serial port connected to Minder .

All suggestions welcome as SWMBO is getting crotchier by the day.

Regards,

Colin

 

Are you saying you cannot download to the C-Touch via CBus using the above method?

What firmware version of PCI are you using?

 

I don't understand this sentence, and it appears to the the important one. How can C-Touch be 5 meters from C-Bus when C-Touch is connected to C-Bus ?

What do you mean exactly by "can not be connected" ?

 

Darren,

1) The lead from the PC to the C Bus PCI is one metre long. The lead from the C touch screen back to C Bus is 5 metres.

2) After about 5 seconds a message appears saying C Touch can not be connected. Behind this message is the standard " Progress blue line" which goes across about half way at the same time as the message appears.

Regards,

Colin

 

PCI Firmware

Richo,

Am out of town at the moment. Will check firmware version on my return.

Regards,

Colin

 

Colin

I assume from the SWMBO comment you're a UK based user ?

I too did not want to have to remove CTouch everytime i reprogrammed/changed schedules.

Not sure how to cure your problem, but this is how we did it.

From Patch Panel in Study I have two runs of CAT5e, 1 goes to PCI unit mounted on din rail with other CBus equipment approximately 20mtrs away. End next to PCI is terminated with an RJ45 outlet and then a short patchlead into top of PCI. With the Serial to RJ45 lead provided with CTouch between computer and patch panel this allows me to control PCI, run Homegate etc.

Second run of CAT5e goes to CTouch, behind it in wall terminated with another RJ45 and small patch lead into back of CTouch. This gives me a permanent connection to Patch Panel that does not require removal of CTouch. When i want to program the CTouch i just move Serial/RJ45 lead from one patch outlet to next.

This gives you quick download to CTouch, and a no mess solution.

Its also what we do for other people, and seems to work well for them too.

I know it doesnt cure your problem, but it might help if you cant cure it



Dean.

 

This still doesn't make sense to me. The distance from C-Touch to C-Bus has to be 0 metres because C-Touch is connected to C-Bus. I am assuming that you have a 5 metre long cable which connects from C-Touch back to where it branches off the rest of the C-Bus network. If this is what you are describing, then the distance is irrelevant anyway. Only the length of the RS232 cables is important.

Am I correct in saying that you can connect to the C-Touch unit via the serial cable, but you can not connect via C-Bus ? The only likely cause of not being able to connect to a C-Touch via C-Bus is if you have the C-Touch unit address set incorrectly.

 

Richo,

The firmware version of the PCI is 4.3.00.

Darren,

I understand where you are coming from. Let me try again. The distance from the C Touch screen back to the DIN rail which holds the PCI is 5 metres. The lead from the PC to the PCI is 1 metre.

Have noted your comments about Unit address.

C Touch is at address 82 on the C Bus network and the address is 82 in the Project Details in the C Touch software.

With a fifth PC we can still connect direct to the C Touch screen. We can still connect direct to C Bus thru the PCI but still can not connect to C Touch thru C Bus.

Regards,

Colin

 

Dean,

SWMBO is the acronym some of us use as did Rumpole. No I am not Sydney based but live in downtown Sydney.

Thanks for your advice. We considered something similar but as I have Minder as well, ideally I wanted one of my serial ports direct to Minder and the other serial port to C Touch but via CBus. This would give me access to all three units from the one PC without having to have an additional patch panel just for C Touch.

I have had two integrators basically give up on the problem but as it is noted by Clipsal that C Touch can be accessed via C Bus then that is the way I want to go.

There is obviously a simple answer but we are all missing it at the moment. The final advice one of the integrators received from Clipsal was that the Touchscreen was faulty. Based on this we fitted a new screen but the situation has not changed.

I just wish someone from Clipsal would come out to my palce to have a look for themselves thereby getting a first ahnd view of the problem and from what I have read todate we would all learn.

Regards,

Colin

 

Dean,

Sorry that should have read "not UK based".

Colin

 

Colin,

Can you lead us step by step what you have tried (eg... I selected the menu item.. and then clicked on this button), what happened, what you were expecting to happen, and any error messages. (Please post exact text of error messages).

As you can imagine since all the information we have is "it doesn't work" it is unlikely we would get approval to go onsite without more detail on what is happening.

I would also suggest if this is urgent that you call tech support as they can go over the steps on the phone with you to diagnose the problems.

http://www.clipsal.com/cis/forms/techsupport.php3

 

Richo,

The integrator went over the problem step by step with online support on at least two occasions. They finally decided it was the Touch screen which as I have mentioned has now been replaced.

I will agian take the desktop out of its wall cabinet and take it downstairs (with screen etc etc). SWMBO will again go ballistic but I am getting used to it.

Prior to this however my recollection from yesterday is as follows.

Connected the serial cable from the PC to the PC.
Coonected to C BUs thru the C BUs program ( and got you the firmware version) No problems here as you can see.
Closed the C Bus program.

Opened C Touch.
Checked unit address was the same in Project details as in C Bus (82)
In Program Options/Connections made sure Com port was correct and connection was to be via C Bus.
Under Option/Connect to C Bus connected to C Bus. Full scan activated and completed successfully. Repeated this step to ensure handshake was successful. Via the virtual screen on the PC can activate and de-activate C Bus services.

Under Transfer/Download selected Download. After 5 seconds dialogue box appears advising "Could not connect to C Touch unit". Behind this dialogue box is a progress bar (blue line) that goes across about halfway. Both the dialogue box and the progress box disappear when you click OK on the former.

Tech Support advised previously that this meant the screen was faulty but as mentioned, we now have a new screen.

As mentioned will go downstairs later and try again.

Regards,

Colin

 

Richo,

Have tried again and the only difference I noted was that when the "Connecting to C Touch" progress box was overlaid with the dialogue box the latter read "Could not connect to C Touch". i.e the last word "unit" was a figment of my imagination.

Also tried various port settings. i.e. Receive buffer to "Low",Transmit buffer to "low', both Receiver and Transmit to "low", baud rate at 2400 and Flow control "hardware" as well as the default "None".

For info, the time taken from selecting download to the appearance of the dialogue box is 10 seconds. During this time, the "Unit Comms" light (orange) on the PCI flashes continuously.

Have left the PC downstairs so let me know if you need any more data so that I do not have to take it down again.

 

Thanks for the extra info...will talk to the C-Touch guru and get back to you.

 

There are a few things that could be set-up wrongly.

To download to C-Touch via C-Bus :
1. In the Program Options form, select PC Connection to C-Bus via Serial Port
2. In the Program Options form, select PC Connection to C-Touch via C-Bus
3. In the Project Details form, select the C-Touch Unit Address
4. Select the Options | Connect To C-Bus menu item
5. Select the Transfer | Connect to Touchscreen menu item
6. A message will state that it will connect to C-Touch on the selected unit address
7. Select the Transfer | Control Touchscreen | Beep menu item
8. The C-Touch should beep.

If the C-Touch does not beep, then C-Touch isn't receiving your messages :
1. You may have poor network communications
2. You may have the unit address wrong

If the C-Touch beeps multiple times, then you aren't getting messages back from C-Touch.

I think that you will find that the latter is the case. In this case, the cause can be the PCI version. With PCIs of version 4.0 or later, the message format changed slightly, and the C-Touch software does not recognise it (as it was written prior to this time). The new software will work correctly when it is released. You have two choices :
1. Use an older PCI
2. Wait for the new C-Touch software (the current Beta version does not do downloading via C-Bus)

 

Darren et al,

The C touch screen beeps 3 times. To say that I am now happy is a gross overstatement.

Two months and countless hours have been spent on this problem but the root cause of the problem is the dysfunctional approach Clipsal seems to take to the upgrades of its so called integrated products.

With V1.9 screen on V1.2 software and a PCI V4.3.00 both purchased at the same time it now appears they will not talk to each other unless I go backwards.

This is another example of the lack of thought when designing product upgrades. The next thing you will probably tell me is that the new software (for which I have to again wait) is not backward compatible with the V1.9 screen.

Have had countless problems with the interface between Minder and C Bus and C Touch because they will not talk to each other and after 12 months I am less than pleased with the support from some of you colleagues.

I will contact the integrator and advise him of this latest chapter and if there is no result I am afriad I will have to look elsewhere.

Notwithstanding the above, I thank you and Richo personally for your support which unfortunately was at the end of the chain.

Best regards,

Colin

 

Hi Colin, it is good to see that we may be getting to the crux of the problem. But I certainly take on board your concerns about product compatiability and the availability of the compatiability information.

I will raise this in the department as I have some software feature ideas that may highlight these sort of issue immediately to the integrator when attempts are made to intergate incompatiable products.

Fortunately the new software will work fine with your existing C-Touch hardware. You will be required to update the firmware, but the new software will do this for you so it is fairly seemless.

I have just spoken to Michael in Tech Support who was talking to your integrator this morning. We have decided to send him a older PCI (no charge) so he can sort this immediate problem out for you. Michael also tested the scenario and confirmed he can download using this older PCI.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Oh ... and don't forget to let us know how you get on

 

Richo,

Thanks and will advise outcome.

Regards,

Colin