Cbus newbie help

Hello, A friend of a friend mentioned this CBUS to me, and im interested! I am doing a new room and want to use CBUS to automate everything but after looking around the web, i am still stuck.

Looking for pointers if anyone wants to help me out!

I know i would need a Frame relay to connect my lights to, and a distro box for switchs i think, thts what i got from it, but need help!

 

it may be an idea to post

1. what you are looking to control. (lights, blinds, etc)
2. whether or not you want to retain any existing switches, etc.
3. What c-bus equipment you are thinking of using

The guys around here are quite helpful, and left to there own devices, you could end up with a room that costs more than you bargained for...

 

I would like to control my Blinds and Lights mainly. I am happy to have all new switchs put in as well!

Basiclly if i have "room 1" with 4 switchs so one for Just walllights, one for Outer Ceiling one for inner ceiling and one for etc..... how would i "wire" them up or would i actually program them and just daisy chain all of them? would i wire them in the "zones" i want them or?

I want to connect around 3/4/5 rooms the others are basic more or less. I want to know what equipment i would need to do this. Thanks

 

You need to do a little bit of reading before posting here.

Once you have a basic understanding of how C-Bus comes together you can use these forums to build your understanding and application knowledge, otherwise you are wasting your time and that of others.

http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/__data/page/2857/14084_C-Bus_Basics_Training_Manual_Vol_1.pdf

 

Ive been reading and reading and this is what i got so far.

I need a power supply and a dimmer and input switchs.

If i use 24v spotlights and daisychain them so all outside ones are daisy chained from 1 cat5e and all inside are daisy'ed as 1 cat5e, i have 2 cat5e wires coming from the room and i use up 1 and 2 in the dimmer.

i have the input (switch) for that room connected to somthing? which i dont know which inturn is connected to the dimmer or Power supply.

Is this the right way? here is a picture incase no one understood

 

Oh dear....

What you have outlined is not even close. I suggest you at least contact an electrician.

You will not find any assistance on this forum with regards to wiring practices as you are dealing with mains voltages.

BTW,
What is your geographic location?

 

An electrician will do the work, but he just wants me to outline what i want him to do :/

 

keep reading

get the training manuals from the cis site and re-read

cat5e is used only between c-bus units, not loads (lights)

you will use the 2c+3 for the lights as they carry the 240V (or 110V if US)

your 12V lights will have the transformer near them for the step down.

there is no separate power supply needed, the dimmer unit will have a power supply built in (if you buy the right one).

You also need to watch the load on the dimmer channel, (1A, 2A or 2.5A).

The cat5 from the switch goes to the dimmer and every other unit in the c-bus network.

 

Does the electrician you are talking to have C-Bus experience? This is a big big issue in parts of Asia where 'spark-testing' causes major issues with C-Bus.

Please tell the forum what your location (country and/or state at least)is. This will impact on aspects of wiring.

 

UK is my location!

So, if they wire normally and they go to a junction box to convert them from 240v etc...

So he would wire them the normal way using normal electriction stuff, then connect it ? so cat5e is only used from Switch(input) and alike (dimmer as well).

ok im getting a better understanding now. I remember him saying he connects them normally to a Junction box, so the outside will connect to 1 junction box and the inside lights connect to another junction box, from there i assume i connect to the "power" supply ? or the "Dimmer/Relay"?

I guess i am very new and getting my head around it

 

Now your scaring me !! - starters you can't run anything but data and ELV with mA's down cat5 so that needs ditching on your lights and not being funny but any spark worth a wage would know that.

You need to calculate your lighting loads as some of the c-bus dimmers don?t handle very big loads.

Why are you dimming outside lights?

Big thing here is are you sure c-bus is the way to go, for what appears to be 1 room as you stated at the start. If I were you I'd look at something like x10, there is Helvar DigiDim4, Lutrons Grafik Eye. But if you do go down the route of c-bus do yourself a favour and get a spark who has done it before which your man has not by the sound of it.

All he should be doing for you is run 1.5mm twin and earth to each circuit of lights and leave the tails in your central location where the c-bus dimmer/relay packs will go, then he can also run cat5e FTP from the central point to each switch position is a daisy chain. Don?t bother with any junction boxes as whoever does the c-bus would put an enclosure up to terminate to.

I take it your doing this all in accordance with Part P or using an electrician that is Part P registered. The problem you may have is who will take ownership of the Part P certificate if you use 2 firms. Again get a spark that is Part P and c-bus accredited to do the lot.

 

I been reading and reading and then phone my sparky and he slapped me for thinkin that cat5e is between the lights lol

this is what i got so far now, maybe this is more correct? or am i really not getting this???

 

what you have in the drawing is correct.

The power supply does not necessarily need to be a stand alone unit. The dimmer can have the power supply built into it (the absence of a P on the end of the part number indicates that the power supply is included), thus allowing you to simplify the drawing a little.

Load is not the only concern with a dimmer, you also need to consider capacitance (of the transformers for the lights), unless you are using a universal dimmer.

Mick

 

If i expand that into multiroom

is this drawing correct?

I will ask the sparky about the loads and capacity etc.. and come back unless anyone from UK knows the answer?

Thanks

 

only thing from the drawing is you've allowed only a 4channel dimmer (2 of) but looks like you have 6 groups per dimmer? Not sure what type of loads your using per channel, looks like some groups on the dimmer have up to 6 lights on one channel, might exceed the what the channel is rated at.
But then again, like others said shouldn't you be getting a sparky that has done this before rather than using the forums to to learn how to wire it?

 

Sorry, they should be reading 8 dimmer not 4, as each dimmer has 6 loads.

Well in UK im from a very remote part, and its hard to get qualified CBUS sparkys

 

An 8 ch dimmer is only capable of 1A/channel (240W)

This means that you should only put about 200W on each channel. A LV down light is typically 50W, meaning that you can only put 4 on a channel (with capacitance consideration as well - the wrong transformer can mean that you only get two on per channel).

So the channels that you have 6 lights on are looking like they will be overloaded.

They way around this is fairly easy. Split the one circuit of 6 lights up into two circuits of three and then in toolkit give the two channels the same group address. This will make them act as one like you have drawn.

Dont be afraid to ask questions, but make sure you have searched the forums first and read the literature on the CIS website. The expectation is that you have tried to help yourself before others help.

Mick

 

Thanks

I have split the 6 lights into 2 x 3! So everything else seems to be "oK" ?