[QUOTE=darrenblake]Comformist, You may be right. I only speak from experience having had a customer torch his own home and trying to write it off as a burglary / arson job. I spent two days beibng interogated by the Insurance company including security licence and background checks, to full installation docs and tech specs on the hardware. I agree Minder, in the right hands can be a great security system, I learned form one of the best - Gary Sayer, but if it is not programmed right it will never work.[/QUOTE] I agree with you Darren... We also have jobs where people try to manipulate the security systems. That will usually come back to the integrity of the system, it's install (I'm sure you have seen systems wired in Cat3 phone cable too) and the person 'playing with it'. As you well know, there are virtually no other systems on the market that come even remotely close to Minder/Thinkboxx/Jeeves/Totalhome. We now use the Ness panel and whilst it's good, it falls way short of the Minder. If the Minder training courses had been conducted by believers in the late 90's, there may have been a greater understanding of the panel and how best to use it. The concept, IQHome etc work as reasonable Home Automation solutions, but there really isn't anything close to a Minder. I know there are a number of solutions that use PC's but I (still) will not use a Windows operating system for important functions in my or my clients' homes. As I said in my reply to you and the group, Mawson Lakes has an encumbrance that requires a recognised Home Automation panel. There are over a thousand Minders in that project. The (security) panels outlined in some of the posts above, have been panels which do not comply with the encumbrance and hence my reply to the group. The Ness M1 panel does and is probably the best panel available for the task.... And please, the rest of the group, don't start on about C-Bus connectivity to Ness.... C-Bus is not a requirement at Mawson Lakes and most of us know the (current) limitations of the M1/C-Bus panel. Cheers:)