CBUSv1 - 4 Channel Dimmers and Ripple Control Tones

Hi
My CBUSv1 installation has been operating since 1998. Most of the interior lighting is controlled via many 4 channel dimmers.

Since installation I have noticed that the when the lights are dimmed at certain times during the evening I get interaction with the ripple control signals from Energex (here in Queensland). The lights modulate in brightness with the control tones, this only effects the lights that are dimmed, lights that are at or near 100% are not effected.

So I assume the ripple control signal is playing havoc with the dimmers TRIAC zero crossing detection.

I know there are filters that remove the 1050Hz ripple from the supply. Has anyone had any similar experiances? what were the fixes?

Options as I see em:
1) A big 3 phase filter at the meterbox,
2) Smaller Filters infront of the dimmers.
3) Put up with it. The wife stopped complaining years ago

Regards
Paul

 

Paul

I realise that this isn't too much help to you in your situation but the DIN and PRO series products have a significantly more advanced Zero-Crossing detection circuit/algorithm and are much more imune to this sort of thing.

Lights that are at or near 100% brightness are not affected beacuse they are receiving essentially the full mains cycle and a little bit of ripple doesn't make enough difference to notice.

 

5102MF - Mains Filter

I have had c-bus installed at my home for several years now and had the same problems with the energex signals. I was able to get a unit from clipsal that was offered as a fix for this problem. The code was 5102MF and worked quite well, say 95% and could be fitted to 2 dimmers if required. they are dated 26.05.00 , so hopefully Clipsal will still have some. If not they really only contain some resistors that are placed in the neutral supply line to the dimmer unit. Of course Clipsal may have something to say about it if non approved ones are fitted and something happens to the units. IE no warranty, but i am guessing that you are no longer in this category.

 

The ripple injection you discribe can (depending on the frequency used by the power authority) cause the light level of your dimmer channels to 'pulse'. This happens at all brightnesses but becomes really noticable at lower settings. More recent build C-bus dimmers have filter circuits to eliminate this, plus there were external filters that provided an acceptable solution (although they were not as effective as the inbuilt version) these are no longer available. Any 5104D750 built from mid 2000 onward has the latest circuit so the only option would be to upgrade the dimmers to post mid 2000 items (contact CIS Tech Support and they may be able to help you out). By the by - the use of ripple injection is confined to NSW, SE QLD, NZ and parts of South Africa, I think the rest of the world has moved on and views deliberatly squrting frequencies down powerlines as odd.

 

CBUSv1 - 4 Channel Dimmers and Ripple Control Tones - need a fix!!!

I have the same problem - I am in Sydney.
I replaced all four 4-channel dimmer units with changeover units supplied by CIS, with no discernable improvement.

Does anyone have any details about either a 3 phase filter, or single phase filters that can be installed in front of the dimmer units?

I have spoken at length with Energy Australia and am at the end of my tether.

A turn-key solution, supplied and installed for a reasonable price would be great!

Thanks,
Craig

 

Disco lights

Hi Craig,

You are not the only one who has suffered from the dreaded frequency injection issue, although i havent heard about it for some years now. In regards to the 5102MF, my recollection is they worked reasonably well. My advice would be to contact your local CIS rep and see if you can get a few of the filters to try. If my memory serves me correctly, you can also try putting a 60W lamp in series with the neutral supplying the dimmer.

GOOD LUCK

 

This is only a half-serious reply...

The use of Power Factor correction capacitors will reduce the level of the signal. I know that because some of the power supply authorities request Blocking Inductors to be wired in series with the capacitors to prevent attenuation of the signal.

Turning that into reverse, there must be some kind of filter available... although if it was properly engineered it might be more expensive than replacing the dimmers ?

JC

 

I used to have a D5104D750 and an Energy Australia sub-station across the road. Not a good combo.

Needless to say, we had the same problems with the lights "wobbling" when at less than full intensity at certain times of the night.

EA were of course disinterested and the 5102MF didn't help either.

Turned out the cure was a good storm and some water to find its way in through the roof and fry the 5104D750. Insurance paid out and we have a new DIN-rail dimmer (in an IP-rated enclosure!) that's not troubled by off-peak signals.

I'm not suggesting you try this at home, but it was our only cure as well.

Sadly, I think that's the price we early-adopters have to pay. (So, who's going to place a bid on the 5104D750 that's sitting on eBay at the moment?)





Greig.

 

Same problem here in NZ



We are having the same problem here with a new install and the Freq is 1050 Hz also

so any help would be great

Stu

 

Hi Stu,


> We are having the same problem here with a new install and
> the Freq is 1050 Hz also
> so any help would be great

A new install, as in new C-Bus2 gear? If so, that sounds rare.

If however you're still using the original 5104D750 I'd suggest you lose them and find either pro-series or DIN-rail units.

We've had no problems here with ripple control since getting rid of the old dimmer.




Greig.