Censorship & free speech

"Re:Closed forums"

Depends on how one interprets the original post - which asked what are the benefit of Chinese manufacture - that means lower costs, benefits of which could be passed on ?

No one is forced to take part or comment in every forum post - moderators included and no matter how one tries to put it - it is censorship !
Understandably a directive from Clipsal?



History clearly shows that things do change in time when people speak out about issues that effect?

After all feedback on hardware/software problems will usually result in changes for the better?
Price & value feedback is obviously taboo!

 

Well, to be fair I think it went kinda off topic as well, not enough to close the thread though.

Ah yes, who else remembers Minder? No-one? Most likely cause discussions around the eventual stuff that was got canned as well, just to name one example.

Hate to break it to you but this is not a forum of free speech.

Its not run by Clipsal.

Its just run by people who work for Clipsal.

These people most likely don't have any issue with what was being said, but did I mention they work for the company that might have an issue with it?

So like I said, its not run by Clipsal, not at all, in anyway really, you must be imagining it.......

 

Ashleigh raised valid points in his closing post, as do you now with your post mmd.

However, Ashleigh simply closed the thread, he did not delete it, and it is still there for the public at large to read, which I'm sure must irk Clipsal to some degree. However I don't think anyone has the right to slam Ashleigh for his response to the issue, especially considering the fact that threads like that one can go on and on forever, with everyone chipping in their 2 cents worth, with inevitable repeats of the same opinion, no doubt ending up in a flame war.

As has been mentioned, this is a forum run by private citizens who devote their time and money to support this forum, the purpose of which is to provide UNOFFICIAL technical support between CIS staff, integrators, and end users.

It is not intended to be used for voicing opinions, as this forum is not read by the people who have the power to affect change on the topics discussed.

If you have a problem with any aspect of CIS's products or service, then talk to your Clipsal/CIS rep about it, that is the only way that you're ever going to change anything regarding the topics discussed.

Voicing opinions on this forum is nothing more than slandering clipsal in a public space. Be thankful that this forum exists, hassling CIS staff who give their free time to help people on here is not going to win anyone's hearts.

 

Darpa +1

 

The thread was still well and truly on topic as it was a discussion on value. Clearly Clipsal sent manufacture offshore to reduce costs, but said cost savings have not made it to the consumer's pockets.

As for Minder I remember that, I still have one. Again a classic case of value. That cost me $1000 10 years ago. To get something now to do the same thing would cost me double or maybe even triple that. That is poor value indeed, but if I was Clipsal or an integrator it would be good as I could make more money off it.

As for censorship, wouldn't call the closure of the thread censorship, but would say it clearly shows the arrogance of those who work at Clipsal, ie the in ability to listen to genuine feedback from people like us who either use or sell their products. Maybe the people running the board are not in power to effect any change, but surely those that do would read comments such as these and stop and think.

Darpa, you made comment that complaining or more correctly voicing an opinion was a form of slander. Before saying things like that stop and think what you are saying. Voicing one's opinion is not even close to slander.

PS is Ashleigh a he or she? Always thought the name spelt that way is the female spelling, with Ashley, being the male spelling (and my name!). Well that was the case until it became popular in the US in the 80's, where Ashley became mainly female, but never seen Ashleigh as the male spelling. Oops getting off topic.

 

I wasn't going to throw my opinion in, but hey it's as valid as any of you other guys.

I spend my days working for an Australian company that also sells worldwide.

We design and build to a finished product both hardware and software.

All the engineering is done in Australia, and some of the manufacturing is done in China.

Why, because we just couldnt pay the bills otherwise, and that's a fact!

Lots of our products installers come into my office and complain about price, quite a few even tell me they could build a better one for a tenth of the cost. My reply is always the same, go ahead!. None have ever tried (that I'm aware of) and certainly none have ever succeded.

The problem is you guys have no idea what it costs to develop a product, and I mean it when I say no idea. It may be true that the end product has a margin on it that is greater than the sum of all the parts, but that's because it has to pay for all the development costs that preceeded it as well as the costs to support and improve it into the future. And that's only some of it, there is much more to it than that.

So to sling mud at a company that is making a product, is easy, try doing it yourself first and then you might be in a position to comment.

Now this post has probably annoyed some of you, just as you annoyed me with some of your comments, so before you all start attacking me for saying you have no idea, remember you really don't have any idea.

Good on you Clipsal, I think you're great!

Rohan

 

I am not surprised it pisses off Clipsal management. Weather this forum is run and paid for Clipsal is surely irrelevant as quite clearly having staff here it represents a public face. The public face clearly does not like any feedback that is negative. Maybe by the time Clipsal realise this the horse will have bolted and what is a good product may become part of history due to simply to ignoring the customer and those that work with this gear. (nothing defamatory there)

 

It seems some people have over paced their imaginations -

Where exactly has their been any case of slander or defamation that comes anywhere close for legal action? - your dreaming.

Comments, views and suggestions that products are over priced (or appear to be so) are as common as hens eggs - what's wrong with a healthy discussion on prices and value for money - after all we are consumers?

By the way - the Off-topic issues (IPOD's, BMW's, Toyota's etc) were initially introduced by clipsal staff by way of comparison in attempt to justify the ends?

The face of clipsal has made its point (by closing the forum) and the issue is now DEAD! - what concerns me now is that we have all been put on notice and the perception that certain posts, topics and issues have effectively been banned and censorship exists if the powers that may be decide!

 

YAWN

Will someone close this thread for Pete's sake. This same regurgitated rubbish is becoming boring. You've all made your points!!! Very clearly!!!

If you don't like it, don't buy it! But for the love of God, stop complaining to those of us who don't care and the rest who clearly can't do anything about it

There are those of us who come here to talk about our exciting industry, through which we earn our living and share our experience. The rest of you serial complainers take your whining elsewhere... most of us here, really don't care. And no, I don't work for Clipsal

 

Figjam +1

 

+2 time to move on