change over relay and blinds

using changeover relay on roller blinds with built in limmits working fine but has seemed to have stuck on change over after quick succession of uses
regards conor.

 

Are you using only 1 channel ?? (I hope not !) (the delay between up and down will kill the motor !! or weld the contacts on the relay !)

Or are you using 2 channels one up and one down and wired with interlock


Charles

 

hi charles ,no using 4 channel change over relay and it has been working fine for aprox 4 weeks .
regards conor

 

i think there could be a problem with these. i recall a thread using capacitors across the channels. Ive used hundreds of these and only in the last 6 months were are getting sticking contacts. might be one for the qa guys to have a look at. ive either sent them back are a light tap has fixed the problem. the motors are the standard somfy so theres no change in the motors we are connecting them to

 

By the sounds of it the motors have been connected to 1 relay output and using NC and NO contact of the relay to switch the motor (easily identified if you cannot stop the motor halfway), in the worst case, even parallel wired.
If this is the case:
If directions have been changed while the motor was moving the resulting Voltage (240V Supply plus overlaying feedback from capacitor which is inside the motor) may have welded the contacts together!
Sometimes a "pad on the back" (Of the relay unit) loosens the contacts again, but I certainly would change the connection if it is connected as I described it above! Otherwise the motors will be damaged over time.

 

Elero we dont wire blinds that unlike most jobs we fix up. Ill dig up a drawing I have later.We wire them basically to have one relay for the up and a second relay for the down and the 4 ch interlocking relay will only do two blinds. Power comes into common r1 then out NC r1 to common of R2 so only power will be able to reach one leg of the motor at a time be the mechanical interlocking. We use delays by various logic so there is less chance up a user selcting up then down etc. Is still think these relays have been getting worse of late.

 

hi markus ,yes thats the problem ,i thought this unit was a change over relay thus only supplying power to either n/o or n/c not both at the same time i read a thread regarding adding add capacitors ,as i have all channels used on relay.
many thanks to all conor

 

Nathan: All done right

You are right:
The way you describe it, there should be no problems for the motors.
The only thing that could still mess up something would be parallel wiring and the delay time maybe not working reliably in all cases (Timer event moving blinds, user overriding in opposite direction, delay time is still active?)

But Clipsal actually described something in a whitepaper here which should resolve your problem:
http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3276

---------- Edited from here: added later on ----------

I have gotten now the "All clear" from the Development Manager from elero GmbH (HQ in Germany) that it is o.k. to have our motors connected as it is described in the whitepaper on http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3276 and that it will not affect the warranty.
Some installers may like that piece of mind

 

This will all be a mute point shortly when the new blind relays are released. Just wish they would hurry up as a customer put in some more roller shutters the other day and we want to use the new relay as soon as it is released instead of using the elero reg 2way (sorry eleroAustralia) and spare relay outputs.

nathan - are you and conor1 working together - the original post seems to have gone to replying to you. I am still unsure from reading if conor1 has wired them up the way you have.

Mick

 

New C-Bus motor relay

I am looking forward for the new C-Bus motor relay.
I am going to/ getting calls from too many sites with messed up motors because of wrong wiring/ programming etc!
If an installer in future doesn't use the C-Bus motor relay or another approved method, I have an simple answer for them in the future.

Does anybody know how it is priced?
Technical specifications? (Switching capacity under inductive load?)
Can it also be used for Venetian blinds (Latching only after 1 or 2 seconds to adjust the slats)?

 

Venetian Blind requirements

For Venetian blind motors (as long they are AC) they have basically the same requirements as Tubular motors. They just are of different shape (square).

The Blinds behave in the following way (95% of them in Australia, there are plenty more systems out in Europe):

On running down the slats are closed.
When the motor switched off on the bottom limit the slats are still closed.

Driving the motor up will open the slats and drive the blind up.

To get to any specific slat position/ adjust the slats to preferred position the user needs to be able to pulse the motor in any one direction.

Usually this is achieved by the motor controller behaving:
Button press of less than 2 seconds: Relay behaves like a momentary contact
Button press of more than 2 seconds: Relay latches

For user convinience most elero products also have a run-time memory:
A double click will run down for a specific time (Running time of the blind from top to bottom limits, anything from 30 - 120 sec) and thereafter run the blind up for a specified time (usually just 0.5 -1.5 sec) to open the slats to the user preferred position.
In this way the user doesn't need to wait around for the blinds to reach the bottom limit before he can adjust the slats.
(I guess this can also be achieved by programming the saturn range of switches or other "logic" components on the C-Bus?)

Is there any final release date available yet?