compact fluorescent dimming...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rakesh_k_v, May 20, 2008.

  1. rakesh_k_v

    rakesh_k_v

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    Is there any way to dim compact fluorescent lights using clipsal Pro or Architectural Dimmers??

    we have Philips Essential 18W Energy saving lights(E27).

    it is written on the cover "Not suitable for dimmers or Electronic switches or Remote controls"...any additional equipments make these lights dimmable???
     
    rakesh_k_v, May 20, 2008
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  2. rakesh_k_v

    Newman

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    I can say with a fair degree of confidence that those lamps will not be suitable for any kind of dimming. You can pretty much guarantee that any CFL lamp not specifically marked as being designed for electronic dimming will not work.

    Osram and GE are 2 brands that have been on the front foot in terms of releasing compact fluorescent lamps that have some compatibility with electronic dimmers.

    The dimming of compact fluorescent lamps is a real minefield and it has been a hot topic on the forum. If you use the search function you'll turn up quite a few interesting threads but some good ones are here, here and here.
     
    Newman, May 20, 2008
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  3. rakesh_k_v

    JohnC

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    Philips have just released a Tornado dimmable 240V unit, and it works very nicely (better than Osram and GE).

    Please keep in mind that these things are all "retrofit" lamps, designed as a replacement for incandescent lamps on an old project. There are a number of compromises made in their construction and the overall system cost (including C-Bus dimmers), usually dreadful luminaire efficiency, and expensive lamp replacements (and short life) makes these lamps a poor choice for a new project.

    They really shouldn't be used in new projects - it is far better to use a proper luminaire designed for fluorescent lamps, then put a dedicated lamp/ballast combination with 0-10V, DSI or DALI control.

    Yep, doing it properly is more expensive. But are you using the cheapest lighting control system?
     
    JohnC, May 21, 2008
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  4. rakesh_k_v

    Glazza

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    Any one done much with these Philips units? I'm looking to dim these using a L5504D2A - any issues with doing so?

    Although it would be nice to use DALI control, its just not an avaliable option in this case.

    Cheers
    David
     
    Glazza, Jun 20, 2009
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  5. rakesh_k_v

    HSLee

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    hi all,

    i have try with megaman energy saving lamp, it work with ULTI, NEO-X and Cbus L5508D1A dimmer.with 18W lamp load(dimmerable)
    It work but there is some limitation like:
    1) u can't dim below 10% so u have to set cbus below 15% then turn off.
    2) the dimming perfomance is not perfect like normal lamp.
    3) just run test for few hour, dunnno whether this will make the lamp life of lamp or cbus shorter for long term running.

    you can refer to below website
    http://www.megamanuk.com/
     
    HSLee, Jun 25, 2009
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  6. rakesh_k_v

    Glazza

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    Well no joy

    Philips have confirmed that they have had other feedback in regards to the noise from the bulb when using it with cbus dimmers.

    It would seem they are conducting testing with Clipsal...
     
    Glazza, Jun 25, 2009
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  7. rakesh_k_v

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Its not just Clipsal. CFLs and phase control dimming *have* to be made to work, and its up to the lamp makers to make this happen. The dimmers worked just fine before the government forced the rules to change. The lamp makers claim their lamps are retrofit / replacements. So its up to them. If a CFL does not work, change to a different brand. All you can do is vote with your $.
     
    ashleigh, Jun 25, 2009
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  8. rakesh_k_v

    Glazza

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    ashleigh - I was in no way trying to blame Clipsal.

    The reply from Philips stated:

    Upon talking to people at Schneider, I was informed that they are planning on testing there gear with the Philips bulbs...

    From my point of view, I currently have a leading edge dimmer, which Im happy enough to upgrade to the Universal Dimmer if it is going to work.
     
    Glazza, Jun 25, 2009
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  9. rakesh_k_v

    ashleigh Moderator

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    I know you are not blaming, and I'm not trying to be defensive.

    It's just a fact of life... some CFLs are better than others (but you can't tell in advance), and the lamp makers are constantly changing the lamp designs so publishing a list of known-good-lamps is a pretty useless activity as well, because the list is out of date within days. And every shipment changes. And then there are the cheap imports with strange brands.

    And, as I pointed out to somebody else... there are some partial solutions which may or may not work. Firstly - if a CFL flickers/flashes, try a 31CAP across the lamp. Secondly - change lamps.

    It is commonly reported that some CFLs will flash when on a plain conventional switch! It's more common for 2-way switching. It turns out to be the wiring capacitance. A few pF is all it takes. I have a CFL from a very big name lamp maker in my own house, which flashes about every 5 seconds. You have to be under it in the dark to see it, but it does. Some lamps are worse and flash very brightly, to the point where they can't be used in bedrooms.

    When these kind of troubles strike, there is only one solution: return the lamp to point of purchase and ask for your money back. If enough consumers do this, the lamp makers will get a bunch of returns and lift their game.

    CFL's, whilst mature as a technology, are in their infancy when it comes to being used in all the various and vague ways of the general lighting bulb, and doubly so when it comes to dimming. They will improve (just in time to be made obsolete by cost effective LED lamps!)
     
    ashleigh, Jun 25, 2009
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  10. rakesh_k_v

    daniel C-Busser Moderator

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    I had a two-pack of Woolworths brand bayonet CFLs, they both flashed quite brightly when off, every 7 seconds. So that's one brand to avoid for sure.
     
    daniel, Jun 26, 2009
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  11. rakesh_k_v

    froop

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    Curiously (and slightly off-topic), I am in the midst of changing out all of my Philips incandescent R63 downlights as they die, because a) they seem to have an attrocious life and b) they hum when dimmed. Eighteen months after moving back in, there are only three that haven't blown and been replaced with (silent) 240v halogens.

    I'm just hanging for a decent dimmable CFL to come along... or as ashleigh says, even better a 240v dimmable LED...
     
    froop, Jun 26, 2009
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  12. rakesh_k_v

    filpee

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    For those interested I was quoted just over $100 per fitting to convert my Oyster style light fittings to DSI operation. This quote was to retro fit the fittings with 2 18watt 4 pin commercial dimmable compact tubes.
     
    filpee, Jun 28, 2009
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  13. rakesh_k_v

    Glazza

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    Not as bad as I thought - however, for cbus, each light then required a relay and DSI output correct?
     
    Glazza, Jun 29, 2009
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  14. rakesh_k_v

    filpee

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    Yes for DSI but a cbus dsi dimmer can support 8 dsi circuits.

    As for relay control this is really only needed if you want to turn off supply to the dsi control gear. Not really needed in a residential situation but can add up to large percentage of energy usage on a commercial job.
     
    filpee, Jun 30, 2009
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  15. rakesh_k_v

    samluo

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    compact fluorescent lamps can not be dim usually unless it is ballast separated
     
    samluo, Nov 3, 2009
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