Dali Job

My company will be involved in the programming of a new 25 story building with every single light fitting being controlled by a DALI ballast. Each level will have its own C BUS network with some floors having as many as 6 DALI gateways. I have done some work with DALI ballasts before and am not a big fan at this stage. It is very hard to get reliable information. Has anyone done a DALI job to this scale? , What is the best and most reliable DALI programming software?, We are using OSRAM ballasts. I want to be confident with this system but to date I am far from it. All comments appreciated
Kelly

 

The quiet on the big DALI question is deafening.

The skinny deal is, if you have a whole building "full" of DALI then you don't need a lighting control system in the traditional sense. Output units are replaced by the fact that each ballast swithes and in many cases dims the fitting. All you need to consider is networking up the DALI loops, what you want in terms of input devices and making sure you leverage the two way information found in DALI.

The C-Bus people have historically hoped DALI would go away. The "current" C-Bus to DALI gateway does a great job of tying a C-Bus install into a DALI install, however if you have a situation where every fitting is DALI you will have a hard time justifying the cost of a lighting control system controlling a (effective) lighting control system.

There are several very large and successful installs of DALI in Aus and around the world. To take on a large DALI only project you will need to know what you are doing in this area. Up until recently (maybe still) Osram's capability for DALI (commissioning ballasts etc) has been pretty ordinary...

Hope this helps...

 

Dali

After doing several DALI jobs with numerous control systems, I can recommend the following.

Use Tridonic ballasts
Buy a DALI programmer (Addict) from Creative Lighting
Spend plenty of time designing you job, right down to the finest details.

 

As lucky says, layering a lighting control system (C-Bus) on top of another lighting control system (DALI) is going to create a very complex install that must be exceptionally well planned (usually with pre-programming)

If they are dimmed and T5, definitely don't warrant the lamp life

 

Hi,
I've done a 22 floor 2 gateway (4 dali network) per floor job. Took forever to get good information and expect to have a high failure rate of ballasts too.

Make sure you get configTool and you allow a lot of time for trouble shooting, or have a lot of extra fittings ready to swap in and out. Only use physical selection and mark straight on to a lighting plan the number of each fitting.

There is no problems when it comes to integrating the Dali and CBus systems, but there are troubles with the Dali system full stop.

Be sure that you do not exceed the limit of loads and I've found that on these sized jobs the clients will almost always want to change something, add more lights, or move them around, so give your self the scope to do that.
You're going to have a lot of "FUN" with this job.

Anton

 

Hi Anton,

You mentioned a high failure rate on the DALI ballasts out of interest what manufacturer brand where they.

On another point you made about moves, changes, additions, I have always estimated DALI loops with a maximum of 50 out of the max 64 fittings. This allows for the inevitable changes / additions etc.

 

Thanks for the info

Thanks for all your replies with your experiences and opinions of DALI good or bad. I have had a bit of experience using DALI on perimeter lighting on a multistory building with the old DALI gateways and at times it has been quite painful. Before I got my hands on Config Tool we used to use Windim which both have good and bad points. IN early commissioning we had a lot of ballast failures probably higher than 5%. They were Tridonic ballasts and the help and info out of them was pretty poor. It wasnt through their lack of caring but more to their lack of knowledge and hands on experience with their product. The job did settle down after a while and in the end work pretty well. The only painful thing is when one fails making that trip out to program a ballast getting unreliable scanning of the networks at times. My new project with all DALI ballasts is going to be quite challenging Im sure and IM sure commissiong time will blow out like it did on my original DALI job but thats life with DALI at the moment. IF I and my commissioning mate had our way we would never go near it again but we dont make the decisions about products. Anyway thanks again

 

There is a better (& cheaper) alternative to DALI

Using 0-10v controlled ballasts & the L5504AMP Analogue Output unit.

It is easy to set up and the ballasts are so much cheaper. The only downside is that the alalogue unit can only dim the flouros but cannot turn the ballasts off so cbus relays are needed to perform the "off" function.

 

Better and cheaper - DONT THINK SO

Analogue is old technology and should be put out to pasture.
DALI is expensive and far more complex to design and commission.

What about DSI?? - Yes it is specific to Tridonic, but is extremely reliable, easy to commission, doesn't require your electricians to be rocket scientists, and is comparable in cost - Especially seeing nearly all new lighting is T5 fluorescent.

 

DSI is fine in bank dimming situations, but in rooms where you want lights controlled individually then DALI, although annoying, does make sense.
Buildings where you may be changing the floor layout, and rejigging rooms also are far easier to re program than re wire with DALI over DSI.
However you have to get them all working in the first place, and hope that they stay working, which is a bit of a draw back.

Horses for courses really. And in most cases the course will allow for DSI, as long as you have the all the information on how the client wants the end product to perform.

 

Dali V Dsi

Agreed, DALI is ideal in buildings were constant reconfiguring of the light switching is important. In a base building DALI present potential flexibility, however, in a fitout that includes, walls, ceilings, workstations and other office furniture, power, data, A/C etc etc, re-wiring a few lights is only a very small component cost to reconfigure a space when the initial cost to install and commission DALI, and the on-going maintenance is factored in.
I have done several dozen DALI projects now, and many more DSI jobs, both have there merits, but for a simple system to install and commision, DSI is still the better option.