Dodgy B&W C-touch?

I've mentioned before about my (replacement) C-touch going into some weird mode where it reboots constantly. In the past, if I unplugged it and left it for a while, then plugged it back in, it'd come good and would be fine. It was doing this about once every 2 months, then about monthy, now about 2-3 weeks.
Well, it's just gone mad again and has failed to recover after a 5 minute "cool down" (ie, completely unplugged from the network).

Everything else is working perfectly, and this unit was a replacement when the original simply "died" during a program update.

My problem is, this c-touch controls all the heating and cooling and more critically, all the cooling for the generator which runs the place - so I'm in real strife without it.

I was assured these things were as reliable as could be - "industrial" standard. Well, I'm not a happy camper at the moment.

Has anyone else experienced this, or similar issues?
Anyone from clipsal care to comment?
What is the warranty period? This one is going to be close to expired I fear, and if it is, I sure as hell won't be buying another!

Very dis-enchanted.
RossW

[Edited to include additional information]
While booting, displays "Initialising, please wait..." with the bargraph.
Then the info page:
Model: 5000CT
Serial No:100066-1146 (exchange/loan unit to replace the original faulty one)
Network Address: 66
Hardware version 1
Monitor Version 1.1
C-Touch Firmware version 2.2.0
C-Bus firmware version 4.3.00
Displays this for approx 10 seconds, then the screen blanks and is filled with streaky horizontal black lines (not unlike snow on a TV) and the whole process repeats.

If I hit <Next> during the info display, the backlight comes on and I can get "into" the thing for a few seconds. SEEMS to work, in as much as the screens change, but lights don't toggle when they should, and the screens seem to be displaying what was on when it died, not what the network state currently is.

Network voltages seem slightly high - between about 27.6 and 30.8 volts, depending on where I check on the network (it's moderately large, the bus is about 720m total, with 60 devices (6 x 12 channel relays, 8 x 8 channel dimmers the c-touch, a bunch of PIRs and the rest are 4 and 8 gang NEO switches)). That said, one of the "monitor" pages on the c-touch displayed voltages at 8 devices scattered across the network, and they've always shown about this voltage from day 1.

I've tried moving the c-touch to another (physical) point on the network but no change.
I tried disconnecting the RS232 cable incase there was any noise affecting things, still no change.
The unit is mounted in a concrete block wall - the ambient temperature is 25 deg C, and hasn't changed more than about 1 degree over the last 6 months. The unit was just barely warm to the touch when I pulled it out last night. (and having left it off all night, it is still misbehaving just the same)

Project resources show:
---------------------------------------------
Total Configuration Memory Used 99164
Spare Memory 97444
Total C-Touch Memory 196608
----------------------------------------------
SUMMARY
Components 44.7%
Fonts 3.6%
Schedules 0.3%
Scenes 1.0%
Logic 0.0%
Other 0.9%
Spare 49.6%
=======================================
USER SETTINGS MEMORY
Item Memory (bytes)
C-Bus Groups 2560
Misc 256
Scenes 141
Schedules 171
Spare 5064

So I don't think it's resource exhaustion.... (apart from which, it's been operating ok for months and hasn't had any code changes recently)


*** Guess who was NOT popular this morning when we were faced with cold showers because the circulating pump wasn't running?

 

My usual (and always) problem with B&W C-touch is the touch screen, which fails after 2-3 years and re-calibrate wouldn't help much. (and the screen actually falls to one side).

Try download the latest firmware to the unit to start with. The original firmware maybe corrupted or not good....

If you have a big program, ie. many keys, pictures, pages..etc and you used old c-touch software to program it, maybe you can re-download it with PICED and see. PICED seems compile much better than old software and uses much less memory.

 

Did the old screen do the same thing ? If not, it is possibly a hardware fault with the new screen. If the old one was the same, it will be related to the project and/or network.

Was it necessary to remove the power for a certain amount of time, or would a couple of seconds be enough ?

Does it only do this after you have removed and re-applied power, or does it suddenly "go mad" for no apparent reason ?

They are actually extremely reliable. Like all electronic devices, occasionally you can have a hardware fault which is intermittent.

12 months

What is the voltage at the C-Touch unit ?

This is a fairly big network. Have you used the C-Bus Diagnostic Software (http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/technical/downloads/software#Diag) to check that you have reliable C-Bus communications ? If not you should do so.

 

No, the old one simply died while new code was being sent to it. The chaps in Adelaide said it was rare, but did sometimes "just happen". I wasn't updating the firmware, just the application code.

Just a few seconds was enough. I think I'd unplugged it for 5, perhaps 10 seconds. Long enough for it to do a proper reset.

The thing never gets power removed in normal use. The only time it's been powered down has been when it's "gone mad", which it does for no apparent reason. It's done it in the middle of the morning, late afternoon, during the evening. It has however, done it "without being provoked". Ie, it isn't as a result to it being physically touched. It's in the wall opposite my office (which has all glass walls and door). There has been nobody even near it when it starts beeping.

You missed the "at the most inconvenient times!".
I'm glad to hear the're so reliable - must have just had a bad run.

According to the c-touch itself, 30.4V. My trusty DMM says 30.98V with the CTouch unplugged, 30.75 with it connected, and 0.95V of ripple/noise

I have not. Just downloaded it, will try shortly and report back.

Meantime, I spoke to the local guys <fx: waves to Hendo> who has offered to swap it out and send it off to see what has happened to it.

RossW

 

Is there anything specific you want? This is a 10-minute snapshot, but there's bugger all happening at the moment, everybody is out, there's no movement, and no C-touch to be initiating stuff.

The one error was right *immediately* I started monitoring. It happens each time I run "Traffic analyser"

I can't see anywhere to do a "network test" as such, guidance? The help does't really tell me how best to use it to determine the "health" of a network.

<H1>C-Bus Traffic Report</H1>
<H2>Summary</H2>
<p>Start Time = 3/04/2006 12:33:57 PM</p>
<p>Elapsed Time = 0:10:02</p>
<table border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td width=150>
<p><b>&nbsp; </b></p></td>
<td width=150>
<p><b>&nbsp; Count</b></p></td>
<td width=150>
<p><b>&nbsp; Average Rate</b></p></td>
<td width=150>
<p><b>&nbsp; Peak Rate</b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; Errors</p></td>

<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 1</p></td>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 0.0 per second</p></td>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 1 per second</p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; Messages</p></td>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 327</p></td>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 0.5 per second</p></td>
<td width=150>
<p>&nbsp; 3 per second</p></td>
</tr>
</table>

 

I suspect from everything that you have described that there is some sort of hardware fault in the unit and it will need to be swapped over.

 

Popped in and saw Hendo yesterday and have an exchange unit. He's sending off the faulty one to see what's happened to it. I brought the exchange unit in, hit it with the same code and it's working fine with the same cables, same location, same application code, everything.

Looks like it just plain failed....

Thanks for the suggestions/thoughts/feedback though.

RossW