Faulty 5512RVFP ??

I have a 5512RVFP (12-channel voltage-free relay) that's started misbehaving again. Wondering if anyone has any suggestions...

It did this last winter too, has been good for 10 months, has just started it again. What it does is intermittently turns on one or several) outputs. At the moment, it's the same output each time that it turns on - which stays on for about 90 seconds near as I can tell - then turns itself back off.

The bizzare bit is that none of the output LEDs come on when it does this.
I've run toolkit and left it on the application log, there are definately no spurious "turn on" signals for the device.

It's driving me nuts.... I can't really justify buying a replacement in the hope thats what's wrong.

 

Hi RossW
The random operation you describe is not a failure occurance I have come across.
Since the output LED is not illuminated when the output is turned on leads me to think the relay is faulty and not that there is some unwanted transmission on the network.

I would get someone to look at the relay to make sure it is not full of ants or something like that.
Also maybe have it removed and shaken or tapped to make sure there is no copper trimmings fallen inside.
I suppose it is also possible that there could be some shorts in the wiring and I think it would be good to rule that out too.

I might as well mention this.
If the loads are LED and they are only glowing dimmly then that could be a whole other matter.

 

Hi Ross,

Sounds like a faulty one there to me. C-Bus is not commanding it (as you said you had nothing logged) and all channels aren't coming on at once or indicating (which would happen in a remote on cable fault)

Now on to possible third party reasons from clients with same/similar problems as you are seeing.

1. Certain spiders, insects and ants can colonise inside nice warm relay units and all that is required is some moisture to set off the (assumed to be) transistor driver circuits that run the relays.

2. Another had a small leak in the bathroom above the electrical enclosure that only happened when using the bath which was not very often in their house. So took a while to find.

3. A client had water wicked into a joint between hard conduit and corrugated that then ran into the under-cover pool electrical enclosure during large storm as they hadn't cleaned their gutters. Circuits would stay on then go off when it dried up. Relay died in the end as you might expect.

Cutting a long story short, all these incidents had similar symptoms and all were moisture related. I'd blow it out with an air gun and some warm air and see if it goes away whilst looking for brown 'drip' marks on the white back of the relay.

All the best,

Brad

 

Hi Brad
I have a question.
Since RossW has a ethernet connection to his PCI similar to mine.
I did some tests here with regard to viewing the logs.

I use an iPhone app called TouchSoft.
None of the logs in ToolKit, Piced or Diagnostic utility showed the transmission from my phone.
Any ideas?

 

In RossW case I think it is not the issue since his output indicators were off.
But in my case I seem to have trouble logging all transmissions on the CBus network and that would make it hard to rule out a problem.

 

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions.

In no particular order:

* The relay unit is in a dry, clear ceiling space.
* There is no external evidence of any infestation of spiders, ants etc
* The loads are inductive (motors) taking about 60W each, not LEDs

New information.
I unplugged the pink network cable from the relay. (It is on a spur, there is only one cable in to it, not loop-in, loop-out as most of the others are).
Since unplugging the network cable, I haven't caught it happening since! (Of course this makes it very difficult to open or close the blinds, short of climbing up a ladder and operating outputs manually)

Last year when it did this, several channels would do it. Not necessarily all at once - we'd come home or go to a room we hadn't been in for a while, and find blinds that should have been closed, open, or vice versa, and sometimes blinds half-way. In an attempt to eliminate one possible source back then (I'd forgotten this) I have removed (disconnected) the "all on" and "all off" wires quite close to the relay module itself (the pink network cable splices onto a cbus cable about 2 feet away, and it is there that I've isolated the all on/off and left only the 4 power+signal conductors connected)

Off to look for any more clues...

 

Hi RossW
I still tend to think your problem is the relay if the output indicators are not coming on and the channels are.
If you have ruled out insects or moisture I think copper trimmings in the relay is still something to consider before you replace it.
Maybe it is also worth taking your ethernet connection to the PCI offline just to be sure no transmissions are coming from there unlikely as it would seem.

 

I tend to agree that its inside the unit, somewhere.
I will disconnect the PCI entirely and reconnect the network cable, but that'll probably have to wait until tonight.

The plot however thickens a little. When I was just looking at it for any evidence of moisture etc, I've found a sticker on the bottom - bright orange/red that says "Warranty repair"!! This unit came from the local Clipsal guys, went in circuit and has never been out, so it's come this way!

The plot thickens, somewhat!

 

I'm sure everyone here wants to help you solve the problem.
If it comes to some hardware problem you are probably best to contact CIS tech support directly.

 

Thanks, and I'll probably have to do that next week when I get a minute.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something blindingly obvious, or subtle-yet-well-known...

Thanks all.