Fluorescent Lights

I am currently running L5508D1A dimmers throughout my house and recently
had batons changed to Fluoros in the Garage. My problems is now that my Fluoros are continiously "Ticking". They seem to emit a ticking sound especially just after they are turned off. Can I do anything about this? Is it anything to be concerned about?

Thanks
SG

 

Steve

Regular Fluorescent loads and ballasts should not be connected to phase-control dimmers. If you desire to dim the fluoros the you'll need to use fluoro ballasts with DSI, DALI or 0-10V input and get the appropriate ouput device for C-Bus. Long term I think you risk damaging your fluoro ballasts and possibly the dimmer too by leaving it this way.

 

Newman

I currently do not dim the fluoros at all. Its 100% on or off. Therefore I assumed it was no different to running this through a relay? Did I assume wrong??

Thanks for your help
Steve

 

Steve

Yes, there are subtle differences in the mains waveform when it is passed through a dimmer compared to a Relay. I'd suggest that you install a C-Bus relay unit to control your Fluoros.

 

I have been using a fluro on a dimmer for over two years now. I didnt have any channels spare on a relay so I did te same thing and had the dimmer switch on and off only. Only difference is that it appears to work for me with no ticking noise.

I am not going to pay for a relay just to turn a fluro on, not when they cost so much and there is no space left to install one. it is much cheaper to use a standard globe in that case

Mick

 

I have two C-Bus 'powered' fluoros. Both are fitted with a single channel C-Bus relay, very elegant, works great! Only thing is needing to run C-Bus cable to the actual fluoro position. But this was easy in my house...

 

I'm not to concerned about damaging the ballasts......(Replace the flouro if that happens)... but, is thear real risk of damaging the 8 channel dimmer? If so, i am in the same situation as znelbok

..."I am not going to pay for a relay just to turn a fluro on, not when they cost so much and there is no space left to install one. it is much cheaper to use a standard globe in that case"

 

The output stage of the dimmers is pretty tough, you should be OK, especially if it's only 1 or 2 ballasts.

The ticking you can hear is probably the fluorescent starter trying to fire up. Running it like this will probably have a significant effect on your starter life.

 

Thanks Newman,
Only running 1 ballast on 1 channel of the eight.
I will just have to put up with the ticking

Steve

 

Connecting flouro's to dimmers does produce some funny results. I too changed one of my lights from an incandecant globe to a fluro, and like one of the previous posts don't see much point in buying a normal relay for it. I never thought that doing it this way could damage anything especialy the dimmer unit!.

In my place the result is different, I don't get the ballast firing, well at least I don't hear it, when on its fine, although maybe a bit of flicker if you look directly at the tube. When off though I get a slight glow from the tube for probably an hour after turning it off. As I learnt the hard way with these dimmer units off doesn't mean off. They still have 240v's on there, so I'm assuming that they dim by current limiting rather that chopping the 240v or reducing the voltage.

 

When the channel is turned on at 100% you probably won't notice any difference. The issues come about at partly-dimmed settings or in the off state. Because all of Clipsal's C-Bus dimmers are fully EMC compliant for Australia that means that there is a tiny amount of bleed current that passes through the dimmer channel when it's in the off state. Nothing much can be done about this, the only fix would be to make the dimmer non-EMC compliant. This issue affects everyone who manufacturs mains dimmers in Australia.

This tiny bleed current may be enough to cause the starter to try and fire or at least start to energise. It does depend on the type of fluoro ballast and how much loading there is. Electronic ballasts seem to be a bit worse in this regard.

The way the various ballasts respond to this small amount of current varies from different manufacturers and types, so it's really on a case-by-case basis. Some people have no problems and others end up burning out starters or replacing ballasts. It's impossible to make a definitive judgement.

BTW, C-Bus DIN Rail dimers use Leading Edge Phase Control technology to dim the loads. Because it is an AC waveform that is being dimmed the way the current and voltage interact is not simple and depends upon the characteristics of the load type. In simple terms there is always a little bit of power available at the load, even when the channel is in the off state.

 

Hehehe yes its a feature. Dim to off is not switch to off.

cheers

 

How is this a feature?

 

I think the point is being missed with this thread.

The short answer is you should not connect fluorescent lights to a standard dimmer, full stop.

No electrician would ever consider doing it with conventional rotary dimmers, it is just plain wrong. The fact that it may work to some extent is irrelevant.

Now I'm all for the DIY C-Bus programming but if you don't know enough about the operation of dimmers (C-Bus or otherwise) then you should not be playing with them. If your lucky you will just destroy something, if your not then you might just end up dead! or worse kill somebody else!

Dimmers are not variable on/off switches and you should treat both them and mains electricity with the respect they deserve.

 

Ashleigh, not so! Re-read my post on 7 April 1:08pm where I said:

The EMC bypass arrangement means that there is always a tiny amount of power dripping through the load, even in the off state.

Charlie, this is moving off topic for this thread. I've created a new thread

 

Cliff

Has the flourescent a PF correction capacitor? Is it possible that there is enough leakage current (as is common with various solid state type controls) causing the starter to operate?

 

flory/dimmers

here in the uk we have to fit flory lamps in new houses....word of warning they go pop...

 

in the uk we have fitted the energy saving lamps and the output from the dimmer was set to on/off and it blew the light up.. stop thinking like integrators and think like electricians, fit a 240v relay to the output ...solves all the problems at a fraction of the cost

 

I was just about to replace my outside GU10 bulbs with low energy ones. Reading this thread 'correctly' I think I have to go to a relay, all my existing lights are on dimmers and I don't want to take a chance to blow something up. That Relay is just so expensive and realestate in my DB comes at a premium.