Hi I am another newbie

I know I am way out of my depth here now and have a steep learning curve ahead perhaps.
I have a history of interest in home automation even wiring my own house in the early 70s when you really couldn't do much with what was readily available. I have been out of the loop for many years now but have renewed interest after recently working long hours on a design for a prefab house construction system.
My main interest is to gather all the information available about what can be included in the "top of the range" model using the C-Bus system.
I will explain more if any are interested and perhaps you may have some suggestions for me.

 

Welcome to the world of C-Bus roundhouse

Some things to look at about the system that should help you become more acquainted with the components that make up C-Bus, as well as some of its more general functions and features, have a look at the following:
Clipsal Integrated Systems website It would pay to click on"Residential" first, and then have a look at the "Trade" section if you want to get into the more technical aspects of things.
C-Bus component catalogue
As well as all other available marketing Literature Here.

I hope this helps with regards to what you are wanting to know.

Darpa

 

thanks for your response Darpa
In the first instance I am wondering to what level you can actually use C-Bus to control what might be considered "complex" logic
Here is a brief example that I was proposing

Can that be done as "standard" or does there have to be programming from other software/hardware
thanks

 

C-Bus is capable of doing everything that you have proposed, although as Nick has said, some of it would require a PAC or Touch screen due to the requirement for a Logic Engine on the network to handle some of the more complex scenes and functions. You definately would not require any third-party hardware or software to achieve what you want.

Something else I should probably mention in the consideration of designing your fre-fab homes, and one of our most prominent contributors here on the forums has made this point many times, is that it is a good idea to split the "Output Units" up into more than one Distribution Panel (DIN-rail enclosure). This results in less mains wiring, as you are not running a cable for each circuit from a central point, instead you have shorter runs of cable from 2 or 3 smaller DB's.

C-Bus uses a specialised pink Cat5 cable to carry its data and power between all the wired components of the system, and although there are several topologies for wiring the network, essentially you run a loop of the pink cabling through the house, passing through each Input unit, output unit, etc.

These two things may have some advantages to you in the case of Fre-Fab homes transported in several pieces on the back of a truck, as it would mean you could pre-wire everything at the factory, putting a DIN-Rail enclosure in each section of the home, meaning only one mains supply cable would need to be wired on site from the meter box/main fuse box/etc per section.
And due to the nature of the C-Bus data network, you could simply put standard computer networking connectors (called RJ45 jacks) on the end of each run of cable for each section of building, and then once delivered on-site, it would be a simple case of just literally "plugging in" each section to one another.

Mains power (240 volt if you are in Australia), only needs to be supplied to the output units, the network power supplies (You can buy output units with the power supplies built in as well), and any Touch screens you may wish to install. This means that all of the input units (Keypads, like Neo's, DLT's, and Saturns for example) just have one or two runs of the pink C-Bus cable, and nothing else. They draw all their power from the network.

Another option is to use a partial or totally wireless network, where the input units have the dimmers built directly into them, allowing you to wire the house as in a non-cbus home, but instead of using normal light switches, you install C-Bus units instead, which all communicate wirelessly.

Hope this gives you some more to think about

 

Flashing light caution.

Welcome to the world of C-Bus, as the other gentlemen have said, all that you have asked is possible but I would caution against the use of flashing lights during a fire alarm. One or two lights may be OK, especially if there are hearing impaired persons in residence, but any more may have a dis-orienteering effect on the occupants. Consider being awoken by the sound of a smoke alarm and then trying to exit the building with the lights flashing on and off. Typically in this scenario I have the bedroom lights turn on as well as any egress paths, i.e. hallways and exits.

My apologies if I sound like a nervous Nelly but sometimes you can have too many bells and whistles.

 

Thanks for all your valued help folks- much appreciated. I have a ton to wade through and probably have more questions soon

 

Again thanks Peter and Darpa and Nick
So far I am simply assessing C-bus but it is looking extemely good -expensive but good and versatile
In the process I am aware of my lack of knowledge in some areas so I hope you dont mind helping out if you can.
Basically my house design is circular. I have divided it up into 8 sections and there is a "ring" of ducting wherby you can gain "head and shoulders " access via the lenses of two skylights per section (8) Within that "space " all the services originate.
Hers are some questions:
***By the wiring rules can I have a 'ring main" in the duct with 8 small distribution boards coming off it and with these boards actually located within the roof space adjacent to the openings ?(this gives me good ability to prewire a considerable amount with little fuss)
***The L5504D2AP could be used for dimming (per channel) up to 8 switchmode 50W downlights tx's like the Clipsals one -couldn't it ?
*** Without having any hardware at all can I set up and simulate a system using one of the download programs ie PICED?
Thanks in advance

Russ

 

I am sorry but I seem like I am not contributing much to this forum however my questions might help others as well. As it is I think I have answered my last post by my own subsequent research but alas I have more to ask
****Does anybody know of suitable "off the shelf" hardware to give a wireless signal if a beam is broken at a gate or driveway (to trigger some welcoming logic) Bear in mind that there could be a power supply there in the form of solar (which may happen to supply lighting as well) or there maybe path lighting supply from the residence. (again of course there may even be mains voltage available but that is not a certainty)
**** Again an issue of available hardware. Is it possible to have some sort of programmable sound source wherby you could have such things as a voice warning of hazardous situations ie "you have left the pool gate open" or "get up stupid your house is on fire". This also could have the added bonus of giving any would be intruders some helpful advice including the simulation of a dog barking in differing levels of frustration depending on the circumstances.

I happen to have read at the weekend that one of our problems with HA in Australia is that it while it is "electrician centered" it doesn't deal with the issue of embracing all of it's potential. My idea of a "part manufacured and complete according to plan" house might help solve some of these problems

 

Install a M1.

 

Thanks Peter. It looks like ness products covers all those possibilities. Do you know if you can feed the voice output of M1 into the house audio system?

 

I recall one incident where a female drag-racer was on her bike and had just finished a pass.

One of the guys looked over at her and said "you are on fire" to which she replied "oh thanks". He said, "no, your clothes are burning, YOU ARE ON FIRE"

Similarly, during Vietnam the Americans lost quite a number of fighter jets because the pilots were too busy to notice that the fuel guage was on empty. Once they used recordings from the spouse it actually worked much better.

So the question is .... how will you get the message across and who's voice will you use ? and wouldn't it be strange being reminded by yourself.

I suspect that if you used bomb-proof glass, approved pool gates, non-slip surfaces and all the coding features that children will still manage to fill the vacuum system with chocolate milk and after the first week or so no person would take notice of the warning systems.

Ideas about what electronics do are not the same thing as what people do. You simply can not force a person to take notice of electronics. That human interaction / interface is the subject of all theory and research into electronics design.

I notice that Microsoft has developed a new type of touch screen. One where you slide your hand over the surface, shrink and enlarge the objects with a pinching gesture (two fingers) and scroll like on the iPhone (since MS is part owner of Apple). The screens can be as large (wall size) or as small (iphone) as you like and they cut down user management by 90%.

This type of interactive surface allows several people to check on the status of the house at the same time as well as manage all of the library collections such as music, movies, email and house moods.

Reactive electronics with fuzzy logic generally dont work as a long term concept. Instead of a fake dog what about installing cameras.

 

Um Tobex,

What is the relevance of your post?

Roundhouse, I'm not sure if it can be feed into an audio system, even if it could the system would

a. need to be on

b. need to be on the the correct input

c. the volume turned up to the correct volume

You would be better off buying a couple of the Ness M1 speakers and have them throughout the house. Plus they can be used as internal sirens.

 

Hi Roundhouse

Yes you can feed the voice output from the M1 into the house audio system, though this may have some disadvantages as Peter pointed out.

We recently completed a 4 level residence that incorporated an internal lift. We installed flush mount 5? 8 ohm speakers in the lift lobby on each level. The speakers can be programmed using the Ness RP software for announcements, internal sirens, and fire alarm announcements if the fire alarms are integrated into the M1 panel.

The volume level for the all of the above can be set via the RP software. We chose the flush mount speakers as they are more attractive than the Ness surface mount speakers.

You may want to contact your local Ness dealer for more information.

Bill

 

tobex
I dont think the warning that your house was on fire would happen enough times for you to get sick of it If it did perhaps I would be teaching the kids about the dangers of playing with matches or some such thing
Thanks for your advice anyway
On the house audio , I was thinking of going via the C-bus audio system -still OK?

 

Thanks ash
Excellent feature . Ideal for this sort of thing .
My next question is -can you program "dog barking " into M1 or would something else be required?

 

Yes you can have a dog barking by using the M1-129 voice module. This will allow you to record your own messages like "Welcome home Master" or play WAV files. So you could have WAV files of a yapping Chihuahua right through to a barking Great Dane. Give your local Ness dealer a call.

Also at the residence in my earlier post as the client arms the system when going to bed anouncements can be made i.e. "Garage door is open" he can then close the garage door via the security keypad or C-Bus.

Bill

 

When it comes to human-to-technology interfaces there is very little that people actually take notice of. It's hard enough as an adult to hear the first two words of a warning, let alone children who seldom hear anything other than their own voice.

Another situation would be that you had some emergency at the pool or in the front yard and the house would be barking / talking mindlessly at you. Technology for the sake of it may sound like a great idea but after the novelty rubs off it will sit neatly alongside the Playstation 1.

Perhaps the best thing would be to choose materials which dont catch fire so easily and install laminated windows with secured frames (the glass wont fall out).

I know that some people build 120dB into a self powered alarm speaker which goes off on alarm. It goes up to 160dB when disconnected from the primary wires. The point being that you wouldn't want to make it go off by mistake.

For my money a thumbprint scanner and a motorised door does the job just fine. Just depends on whether you want auditory or visual gadgets.

 

It is long known that auditory cues get ignored once they are learned. They serve no purpose at all in an emergency.