In wall dimmer

Hi,
I'm new to C-bus but it looks like it's my only option at this point due to lack of other technologies available for 240v systems.
I'm trying to find a dimmer module (It doesn't even have to be C-bus) that can be hardwired in the wall that would allow me to control it with some kind of serial commands or even a PWM signal from something like an Arduino (I could then program the Arduino to take the serial commands and translate to PWM signal).

At present I'm only after 1 module but I'd expand this in the future.
Can anyone recommend a suitable C-bus or other module that could handle it?

 

Wireless option?

Hello justinj.
Have you thought about C-Bus wireless?
Although it wouldn't be the most economical option, you could use a wireless switch (dimmer) [5882D2L1AA], wireless gateway [5800WCGA], C-Bus power supply [5500PS] and PC Interface [5500PC]. Check the Clipsal CIS website for a protocol document and go from there.

Mark

 

Hiya Justin,

I know tou have given lots of info above but perhaps you could give us some additional info and background info into what you are wanting to do..

From your info above i took these key points..

Hardwired dimmer module for 240v.. What kind of loads are you wanting to dim?
Must be controllable via serial or pwm.. Possibly from an arduino microcontroller..
Something expandable later on..
Not really keen on CBUS for what ever reason..

What are you really trying to do and achieve, and do you have the necessary skillset/qualifications to achieve this?

Cheers..

 

Hi JustinJ,

Whilst not a C-Bus solution, I would suggest for your project you could use and program the Arduino IR board and a Clipsal 2031E2PUDR see Here

You can control this dimmer with the nice handheld remote it comes with (it also does scenes) and also experiment with your Arduino using a discretely hidden IR sender. There are also plenty of serial to IR boards around if you absolutely need to be serial. PM me if you want some ideas.

All the best,

Brad

 

I'm after having a LV/PWM/TTL input and having it control a 240v triac/dimmer of some description.

I'm after dimming 250w of LV downlights and wall lights and I'm not really keen on CBUS because of the lack of customisation that I like to do to things The starting plan was to have a dimmer hooked up to the lights in our theatre room and have an Arduino hooked up to a rotary encoder and momentary switch AND the theatre room PC so that I can have the same standard HP looking wall switch and dimmer as the rest of the house with the ability to have the PC slowly dim the lights to off once a video/DVD etc. starts playing but still maintaining manual control when needed.

 

Hmm fair enough..

Well bmerricks solution of an 'Arduino IR board and a Clipsal 2031E2PUDR ' is probably your best bet then..

Unfortunately there is nothing out there that I am aware of that will allow you to use your existing wall switch and dimmer and give your remote dimming capability, although there are some retrofit products about which can just get wired behind the switch to allow remote 'control' of the switch circuit but you would be stuck with the light being set at whatever level the mains dimmer is set to..

PS.. Thats the first time i have ever heard of someone saying CBUS has a lack of ability to customise.. I can only assume you have really not ever had much to do with it because it is one of the most flexible and customisable automation products out there..

Cheers..

 

The only problem with the Clipsal 2031E2PUDR is that it's different to all our other switches again which I wanted to avoid. I've looked at some of the retrofit products but they also are lacking dimming capabilities manually.
As for the lack of ability to customise it's mainly due to wanting to keep the same HPM switches/dimmer we have (With the rotary encoder behind it instead) as well as having it controlled from some non-proprietry software. The proprietry thing is what kills a lot of it for me as there's going to be further expansions in the future that may run off a different protocol.

 

Well as long as you like tinkering you can achieve what you want with Arduino..

Current HPM Switch gets kept but removed from 240v, instead gets wired up to an isolated input to the arduino chipset..

Current HPM dimmer gets changed to a regular potentiometer, but retain the original knob so it all looks the same.. This then gets wired up to a isolated variable input on the arduino chipset..

PC gets interfaced by ethernet, rs232, usb into the Arduino..

Arduino gets a dimmable output, which is wired to your load..

Program up the arduino so it knows what to do.. Ie do whatever the newest command is, whether it is from wall switch and dimmer input or pc..

Plenty of info over @ www.arduino.cc and most of the parts you will require can be easily sourced from Jaycar or the like..


ALTERNATIVELY, only cos i feel i have too, You could go down the CBUS Path..

Current HPM Switch gets kept but removed from 240v, instead gets wired up to a CBUS Bus Coupler..

Current HPM dimmer gets changed to a regular potentiometer (500 ohm, 1k ohm, 3k ohm or 10k ohm), but retain the original knob so it all looks the same.. This then gets wired up to a CBUS general input unit..

PC gets interfaced by ethernet, rs232 to CBUS..

Load gets wired up to a CBUS 4ch 2A Universal Dimmer Module..

Program and have running in 30mins..

Cheers..

 

Wow!

Well done all forum members for the informative replies..
One question justinj, are all your rooms the same?
So you have a home theatre, it's not the same as the other rooms, has more functionality so it would not be uncommon or out of place to have a slightly different control (light switch).
From what I understand, the clipsal part: C2031E2PUDR will give you the functionality and integration you are after. It does come in different wall plate styles and colours, see this link.
http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/ProductInformation.aspx?CatNo=C2031E2PUDR&ref=

Failing that maybe you need to follow up on the HPM forum as this is a C-Bus one.

 

Hi Justinj,

Maybe you could attach a photo of your current HPM dimmer switch and knob so we know what you want matched. That way we can give you more options.

Also, behind the switch, is it a wall box or a cavity in Gyprock etc. Most dimmers get very hot unless specifically designed to be in closed spaces. You could end up making something that works well, but burns your house down when you are away. Obviously not what you want.

I still think based on your expanded responses that IR to a PUDR has the benefits of easy Arduino integration (using whatever future protocol you want) and a safe dimmer in the wall doing its job properly.

Regards,

Brad

 

That's the C-Bus equivalent (As I cannot find any other 240v commercial alternative) that I'm after. Something which I can control with something other than another C-Bus switch. I also don't want to go down the make-a-circuit-myself route for insurance reasons which is why I'm trying to find a commercial item that can do the job I'm after.

The regular potentiometer was the reason I was thinking of a rotary encoder instead, otherwise I can see confusion (Correct me if I'm missing something) where you might manually dim the lights to 50%. Then the movie starts and the lights fade out. When it ends where does it return the lights to? 50% or 100%? If it's at 100% when you go to turn them down manually (After the PC is off) it's already at 50%. My thoughts of having a rotary encoder is that there is no start or finish for the dial and turning it either way won't have a physical end point where it will no longer turn. Maybe I'm just overthinking things, I know I often do. Maybe it's just a shortfall and I'm not overthinking and I'm over engineering instead?

I guess I was really hoping for a C-Bus dimmer that I could control via something other than another C-Bus switch or PC interface.

 

Ok.. So lets wind this up..

Simple answer is NO, what you are wanting and trying to do is not possible with CBUS or any other system off the shelf i have seen in many years of playing with this stuff..

I have another solution for you.. Replace all your HPM switches with Clipsal ones and then CBUS switches will match it..

Cheers..

 

Not to disregard Roosta's wrap up

But I would probably get something like this: http://www.jdsound.com.au/products/331-planet-one-plus-mark-ii-dmx-controlled-dimmer.aspx

and either add an RS485 shield to your board and do DMX or bypass the RS485 chip in the dimmer and feed into the backend...

 

Hey J..

Nice product that.. Have seen similar around the traps.. It will still require modification to work in this instance..

Issue for justin is any modification made to his wiring installing anything other than a fully ready to go module by a licenced electrician and a reputable company is possibly going to void his insurance if anything should happen..

Cheers..

 

Yes, it is most definitely the better side of cheaper units.

Well in that case yes I think a 'plug in' module will be hard to come by with that basic level of control.

But as they say, you can't bake a cake without breaking some eggs

 

I still wanted to see the HPM dimmer and switch!!! I'd assumed they must have become a whole lot more stylish since the last one I saw, ...... white knurled knob, white plastic plate, dots over the screw holes, clean white lines, ..... A real classic!!!

No wait,

Justin, I can now see why you want to spend hundreds or thousands with bespoke encoders, digital controllers and in-wall Arduino controlled multi-protocol'd PLCs............ to preserve the clean elegant un-complicated lines of the existing HPM rotary dimmer switch


Roosta, you missed in your C-Bus solution that you could track a 360 degree rotary potentiometer's resistance output in the General Input unit, use logic in a PAC etc to interpolate the resistance changes to degrees of rotation / arc change, noting and correcting end point traversals in logic and then from that extrapolate the percentage of increase or decrease in existing light level calibrated to the existing HPM dimmers rate curve. So for example, 32 degrees of calculated arc traversal would always increase the output by the same percentage irrespective of original pot wiper location.

Now write the code required in logic to apply this percentage change onto the existing C-Bus group address's existing level and you have a working system. A snap!

So Justin, all you really need is the pot (image provided below), and just a few relatively in-expensive C-Bus elements being a PAC, either a wireless gateway & wireless inline dimmer or a C-Bus wired 4 channel dimmer, a general input unit, C-Bus power supply, a C-Bus PCI and then you're set. If you also get a Wiser, you can control the light also with your iPhone.

And as to whether the dimmer goes back to 100% or 50% after the movie, it will be your preference as the logic will allow you the choice either way.

All the best,

Brad

 

Thanks for that Brad, I'll look into that tonight. It sounds like there may be a less-complicated solution to what I'm after which is why I came on here! There's just so many different options and modules for C-Bus that you can easily get lost unless you've worked with it before.

Justin

 

HA HA HA Brad.. You got me..

I cant help always looking for the easiest and cheapest option first everytime..

Cheers..