inherted a system, where do i start?

Hi guys,
i'm new to c-bus but the company i work for is moving into new offices with it installed already so i have to get up to speed.

So far i've found what looks like a minder mk2 with lcd panel below that controls garden sprinklers, floodlights, etc.
Theres also a c-bus system which drives the lights and window blinds. The lights are currently programmed to come on when triggered by occupancy sensors in each room.

There is no documentation or files related to whats there now and i'm at a loss as to where to begin. I plugged a laptop into the minders rs-232 port and ran the latest c-bus toolkit software but recieved a message about no network found.

Is the c-bus toolkit the correct software to use to connect to a minder or is there something else i need that i haven't found.

I need to reprogram the lighting system as some changes have been made to the building.

Thanks for any advice.
Leon

 

The latest software (Toolkit) will not work with the Minder as the interface to C-Bus.. you will need a PCI (PC Interface) or a CNI (Ethernet Network interface)..

From there you can scan the network, identify the units, reprogram them etc.. would be worth doing the C-Bus Training Course beforehand though.

I cant help you with the Minder programming.. might pay to find a local System Integrator with some Minder experience.

 

The training course might be a good idea, i'll look into it.

Since the system has already been configured and works i assume that either theres a PCI/CNI somewhere i haven't found yet (not a stupid idea, i just found some more relays in the roof!) or theres some older software i need to find. That gives me something to work with, thanks

 

Yes, older software would work with the Minder..

The "V2" software: http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/technical/downloads/software#InstallSoftware

 

Thanks, i'll give it a try.

 

At least scanning the network with the old V2 software will tell you exactly how many units there are in your system and what they are.

If the scan shows up that there's a PC_INT_1 or a PCINT4 unit there somewhere then you know there's a PC Interface lurking on the system somewhere!

 

I face a couple of similar situations at the moment - inherited projects with no documentation.

One thing to remember is that the Cbus units only have a limited "memory" of their identities....

At time of commissioning, each Cbus unit should have been given a short (8 character) name, with a longer description only held within the Computer Database of the program that was used for commissioning. Therefore dependant on the "quality" of those short names, you may have to do some electronic sleuthing to work out what is what.

Generally I've found that the short names are less than helpful in identifying each device, and/or it's location. While you work through the job, you should re-name the devices to things that make sense to you. For example, I don't use codes, but rather something like DN_L2_D3 which would tell me it's Downstairs in location #2 (refer to map) and it's Dimmer #3. I then put a sticker on the face of each unit with that same Name Code, and a copyt of the Map in each location/switchboard.

Also, the Group Addresses that control the switching are only held in HEX format within the Units. In V2 software I think it's Hex only, in Toolkit it's also converted to Decimal. These Groups are the link between the Input devices and Output devices, for example a PIR will issue a command for Group Address 14 to switch on, then any Output Device with a corresponding Group 14 will respond accordingly.

The only "description" of these Groups is held within the Computer Database - therefore if you don't have that Database it's tricky to work out the relationships between devices and how the whole thing works.

The way I approach it is to Scan the network, then make up a Excel Spreadsheet. In the first column I have the Hex numbers of the Groups, in the second I use formula =HEX2DEC(cell1) to create Decimal equivalents, since my head works better in Decimal. 3rd column in the Load Name, which I fill in as I go.

Then, I call up each Group and use Toolkit (or V2 software) to switch just that Group on. Then a walk-around to determine "what happened", and then fill in the spreadsheet with a description of the load (eg: Garden Spike Lights). I then re-name the Group Name in Toolkit accordingly. The reason for the spreadsheet is so that other notes can be used, and a hard-copy is printed off for use while walking around the site.

Once the Database descriptions are re-created, the rest of the programming is pretty easy to acheive. But it's a messy job to make that Database when the previous installer didn't leave a copy.

Hope that helps, John

 

I gave the V2 software a try today. Received the error: PC Interface not detected.

I know i had the COM settings right but after doing some searching it looks like the USB to Serial converter i'm using on my laptop is probably the problem. I'll take a PC down next week with a built in serial port and give it another try.

John: thanks for the advice, i looked at one of the units that has been taken off a wall and theres a short code and group number written in pen on the back, so i've got a bit of a start point. Pity i can't pull them all off and look at them

I'll definately be writing some better documentation when i'm done.

 

The most reliable RS-232 to USB converter we have found is this one:
http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/technic...ourceSession=6d6ae858a65100424cc58cbfe7c8e0c3