Input Units programming changing after start up.

What would cause programming to change on a keypad after it has been configured and saved? I have a situation on job that I have started up.. The keypads programming has changed since I was on site. I know the affected rooms tested correctly during start up and worked fine for several months and my database shows the correct programming from last time I was on site, but when I open keypad I now have extra GA in some of my scenes. Crestron is integrated to this system as well. Is it possible for Crestron configure devices through the PCI? Maybe system got put into learn mode somehow. Currently using Toolkit 1.11.4 I have attached some screen shots. Top one is from my database and is correct the lower one shows the added groups which in return affects other rooms. Thanks All

 

The most likely cause for this is the user inadvertently invoking Scene Setup Mode on the switch.

Buttons configured as Scene keys can have the contents of the scene edited, without using Toolkit, using a mode called Scene Setup Mode. This mode is invoked by pressing and holding any button configured as a Scene key for 10 seconds. The indicator will flash on and off. Whilst it is flashing, any C-bus groups that change their level will be added to the scene. The last level seen for those groups is stored at the scene level. A press and hold on the button for a second or so will exit Scene Setup Mode (and save the changes).

The only bit I can't remember off-hand is whether Scene Setup Mode gets disabled when Learn Mode is disabled on the switch. I think it does but I can't remember for sure.

 

It does get disabled when Learn is disabled - rather important for commercial installations I suspect.

 

I was unaware of this ability to invoke this state. I agree with you Don that the learn mode should be disabled and that I will be implementing this in my projects moving forward.

If we do not continue to learn we do not move forward.

I thank you guys for your help.

 

I agree this is something that should be in the documentation and taught in the training classes in US. Learn mode is not discussed on any level here.

 

Quick summary of Learn

Learn mode allows the following to be configured:
1) application address
2) groups in key units,PIR sensors, dimmers and relays
3) Key functions (on / off, dimmer, timer, scenes)
4) key timer durations
5) output unit burden state

In addition, Learn mode in output units implements a step-by-step diagnostic to configure C-Bus clock generators and burdens from scratch, which can usually get a non-functional network operational automatically.

I think the easiest way to become acquainted with Learn mode is to use a DLT. The DLT display shows you a lot of detail about what is going on. You should be able to figure out most of it this way.

Assuming that Learn mode can be entered (Learn enabled in units, >10 second press of output unit manual toggle button), the group associated with the output unit circuit associated with the button used to enter Learn is broadcast to all Learn capable units.

If no application address has been assigned, Learn will automatically provide a default application (038h).

If no group is assigned, Learn will start assigning addresses from address 1, skipping over any groups that are already used.

Apart from a few early units, all existing associations to the same group will be displayed on the key units, relay and dimmer units, and even PIR sensors. From here, the group associations can be edited by selecting new buttons or deselecting existing buttons, then Learn can be exited by holding down any selected relay or dimmer unit buttons for a 'long press' (over 400ms). To select / deselect a PIR sensor, change the light level (a lot) either up or down. A Flashlight (torch) should do the trick in most cases, or you can twiddle the light sensitivity pot (PIRS don't really fit well into learn mode imho, but they can be configured).

On a short press (under 400ms), key units in Learn mode will assign either one_ key_dimmer or on_off functions to match the unit type used to enter Learn (relay or dimmer).
Hold a button down on a key unit and you get a timer function, with every 'double-blink' of the led representing a 5 minute timer interval (DLT shows the timer interval as you hold the button down). If you go over what you intended, just deselect and try again.
a 'double-click' on a key selects that key as a scene key (limited to about 10 scene groups which are not selected In Learn mode but in 'scene setup mode')

There's a little more detail, but this should get you going.

As a diagnostic feature in Learn, if you double-click an output unit (dimmer or relay) local toggle button while in Learn mode, it will display the burden state on one of the LEDs (one flashes slowly, the other shows the burden state). You can manually toggle the burden state by double-clicking any button repeatedly. Exiting learn will leave the burden in the last state.

When programming a DLT in learn, you can select the second 'page' of key functions just as you would normally.

Out of Learn mode, once everything is working again, you can edit scene keys by holding down the scene key button for over 10 seconds. This puts the key unit in 'scene setup' mode, where any lighting groups in the same application as the key which change (either by pressing keys on this unit or any other unit) will be recorded as part of the key's scene. If the group is already in the scene, only the new level will be recorded. Once the scene is 'full', a special flash sequence will result. A double-click will clear the scene if you need to start again. A Long press on the scene key will exit scene setup mode.

I hope this helps!