Installation best practices

I'm in the UK and preparing an installation with my electrician, he'll be doing the high voltage bits, I'll be doing the LV network bits and toolkit programming. The plan at the moment is:

1. Separate mains consumer unit and one or more c-bus enclosures for the HV c-bus units and c-bus PCI unit
2. Main consumer unit for all mains sockets with circuit protection for each circuit
3. Main consumer unit incorporating protection modules (RCBOs) feeding each of the c-bus power supply units (dimmers, relays and standalone PSUs) in the separate c-bus enclosure
4. Single cat 5 into the c-bus enclosure
5. Max 6 35w GU10 bulbs per 1amp dimmer channel from 8 channel 5508D1A dimmer (210W max per channel)
6. Dimmer and relay channels for the same room spread across more than 1 unit to prevent total room failure if a c-bus unit fails

I'm wondering if there are some best practices when it comes to the general installation based on others experience, specifically in the following areas:

1. what kind of surface box/connectors do people use to join runs of Cat 5 cable back in the hub area prior to passing a single cat 5 cable into the c-bus enclosure, C-Bus state a product but I can't find this in the UK (CAT 5 SURFACE BOX SMRJ88A5/1). Is there some kind of IDC block or screw terminal block that works well? With my plan I'll have 5 incoming cat 5 cables and 1 out to the enclousre so need to join 6 cables total.
2. it seems most sensible to protect each dimmer/relay/power supply with an RCD/MCB/RCBO, are these mounted in the c-bus enclosure next to the c-bus module, or outside in a std consumer unit (as per my plan)?
3. is there preferred approach to the number of c-bus network units daisy chained together in a single run back to the central wiring hub? I'm probably going to split mine into 5 separate network runs splitting the house into 2 runs for ground floor, 2 for first and 1 for the attic rooms
4. how many cat 5 cable terminations can a single network device handle?
5. is it better to spread the light circuits per room across multiple units, or to provide room isolation by having one room on one unit?
6. is there anythign specific about the separation of LV and mains wiring inside the c-bus enclosure or is it a case of keeping the 2 as far apart as possible?

Any comments on these or general best practices would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks.

 

I have done something similar. I have a separate Consumer unit for all RCBO\MCB and a separate enclose for C-Bus Units

My setup is
4 * 4 Channels Dimmers
3 * 8 Channel Dimmers
3 * 12 Channel Relays

Consumer unit is 3 stack, 1st stack High Integrity, 2nd RCD, 3rd RCD

The cbus power is split over two RCBO, this is just the main power for the unit not loads.

Dimmers loads are protected individually by 10A MCB except one 8 channel dimmer protected by 10A RCBO. The MCB are split over the 2 RCD?s

The Relays loads are also fed by individual 10A MCB?s split over the two RCD?s, except one were 4 channels are looped via 10A MCB, 2 channels fed by another 10A MCB for UFH in bathrooms, and 6 with 10A RCBO for exterior lighting.

All circuits are spread over different dimmers and relays so I do not get total failure should a RCD\MCB trip.

The c-bus cables are currently connect via a connecter block in a junction box, alto I have a telecoms patch panel which I got from CPC code CS00207 that still need to go in, when i get time.

 

Thanks for the response. What cabinet(s) are you using for the c-bus enclosure?

How is the connector block for joining the c-bus cables? I'm guessing it's a screw terminal block, did you twist wires together or just push in and screw down?

Thanks

 

Screw terminal block. twisted together, but prob not the best way to connect Cat 5 cables

It a Sarel enclosure i think it is Spacial S3D they are owned by schneider-electric now

 

Hi, I would strongly recommend finding an electrician who knows this stuff - I used one (Ben Addison) who has done loads of it. He did the HV and LV and I did the programming.

Some of the devices connect using RJ68 connectors others screw terminal blocks. I have Hager cabinets containing all the CBUS gear and MCBs for each circuit - you daisy chain the units in the cabinets.

Under electrical safety regs I think you would aim for units serving areas or rooms.

Also - have a look at LED lighting these days - especially if this is a new installation. Halogens are being outlawed soon!!

Mark

 

Mark, I'd like to use LED downlighters instead of GU10s. Are you in the UK and if so have you found some c-bus leading edge dimmer compatible LED bulbs?

My electrician has done some previous installs with other automation products so is not entirely green, I like to have a good enough understanding that I can check everything is as it should be and have some useful input into the process.

If you want to share some installation pictures that would be good, feel free to PM if you don't want them on the forum

 

Protection per output - again!

I was doing some more research, including other posts on this forum.

This is a tricky one as it seems difficult to get a firm answer. What's the general consensus in the UK for protecting each individual output from a dimmer or relay with a MCB or fuse? Is it an absolute must, a best practice or an over cautious step?

 

Lenny,
I am UK based!

For the LED install we ended up using 1-10v dimming and ballasts and fittings from Light IQ.

You protect each channel on a dimer as they are not cheap and the rush current when a bulb fails is large.

http://www.benaddison.com/NickAndMicky/NickAndMicky.htm

These aren't my install but will give you an idea is it is very similar.

Mark

 

Thanks for the pics Mark, that's really useful.

So I'm clear what's in the picture, it looks like 3 x 12 way relays, 1 x 8 way dimmer, all the output channels on both the relays and dimmer are protected with 10 amp, 2 amps and 1 amp MCBs (depending on what's being powered).

Does the consumer unit below the c-bus enclosures house the protections devices for each of the 4 c-bus modules?

Looks great and I think i'll use it as an example of excellence for my electrician

 

Lenny,
I believe you have it right - although you will find the 10A MCB protect the supplies into the dimmers/relays and the 1 or 2A MCBs the loads on them.
Mark

 

Anyone know a good place to get the 1amp & 2amp MCBs in the UK for the dimmer load protection. I've got around 40 to buy!

 

An electrical supplier would be a good start. Which one would depend where in the UK you lived, but shouldn't be hard to find.

When I lived in London I used to use WF only because they were close to the office.

 

Prices of the 1amp MCBs vary from about ?4 each to ?10+ each. What is the required specification of them, I don't want to get the cheapest but also, I'm not wanting to fork out another ?400+ for them!

Should it be Type B, C or D?

 

Hi not sure if this is of any use to you but this is my cbus installhere

 

Hi Lenny
I can supply you mcb's at ?2.80 each inc vat plus p&p. I by 10 boxes of 12 at a time. i have used over 500 this year and have around 100 to install before the end off the year.

If you need any help give me a call, evenngs are best to get hold of me.

Thanks

 

Hi Ben

If you can supply me some MCBs that would be great. I'll give you a call in the next few weeks if that's ok and sort out how many I need.

Will probably need 24 x 1amp MCBs, but depends on how many dimmers I end up with.

Thanks

John

 

I'm finally getting around to installing my c-bus system, the electrician is coming over on Sat so we can go through the final install, can't wait to get things up and running.

I've tested some GU10 type LED lamps for dimming and found some that work very well so ordered 60 of those too. If I'm allowed, I'll provide details of the lamps for UK users as I know the question of dimmable LEDs often comes up.

Couple of questions to put out there before the electrician comes over so I can confirm a couple more best practice details.

1. If I'm using LED and energy saving lamps in the entire house, is there still a high risk of a spike in current if the lamps blow & therefore is a breaker on each lighting channel still necessary (as it would be with tungsten bulbs) to protect the dimmer channels?

2. To power the dimmers from the main consumer unit, do you usually run one dimmer unit per breaker, or do you combine a couple of dimmers onto a breaker taking into account the total load on the dimmer channels to rate the breaker?

3. What type of breakers should be used to the dimmer supply (MCB, RCD etc)?

4. I've got 3 cabinets plus a large consumer unit, does it make any difference if the c-bus module supply breakers are in the CU or the c-bus cabinets?

5. I've got 3 x 4 channel dimmers, 2 x 8 channel dimmers, 1 x 12 channel relay, a PAC and a serial PCI module, how much physical separation is required between the dimmers/relays and the PAC/PCI modules, can I put a PAC on the end of the din rail next to a dimmer for example, or should they PAC and PCI be on a rail of their own? I've got 3 x 18 din rails per cabinet and 3 cabinets, plus 40+ breakers for protection of each outing circuit (subject to question 1 above!)

I'll post some pictures of the install once it starts, but the 3 hager cabinets look good on the wall next to one another!!

 

After testing a number of LED lamps, the ones that I liked the best are Megaman's lamps.

I've purchased a number of the 6W 410 lumens 2800k warm white lamps. They dim to a very low level (just a couple of percent) and right up to full brightness without flickering at any level and the ramping is smooth.

I paid about ?9 per lamp. Obviously once I get all 60 installed in configurations of between 3 and 6 per channle I'll see again if they are still performing as well!!

These are available in the UK, not sure about other countries.

 

This is how I'd like to layout my 3 cabinets, any thoughts or suggestions?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzieTwT0GJaLczQ1TVY3RmZrT1k/edit?usp=sharing

The red single modules are the breakers protecting each circuit, the MCB next to each dimmer are to protect the supply to the modules.