Issues with old CBus1 - 5100B net bridge

Hi All,

New to this forum, but new to C-Bus, sorry 4 the long post will try to keep it conciseh
I'm involved with a reconfig of a large existing site, it's a mixture of C-Bus1 and C-Bus2, and as is typical there is no existing documentation or project file! The kit's spread over seven networks utilising a 'Backbone' config, with well less than 100 units/leg. I know this as I?ve painstakingly traced, ?belled out? and tested all the legs! And a final check with a 5100NA tells me alls well.

Connect Tool Kit (V1.10.6) via a PCI, to the backbone (local leg), scan local net, and see all seven bridges in the correct topology.

Problem: Can?t add the net bridges using either of the following methods:

1, From the Network units window, ?Make Network? adds a new network but reports that the bridge is not reachable and can not be added to the database.
2, From the project window with the following steps: Add network, network name = <net name>, type = bridge ? wired, transit network = local, Add bridge, Bridge = <new unit>, Bridge type = 5100B.
This adds the new network <net name> to project but, the topology diagram reports ?warning: <net name> is not accessible.

Have tried the same at home on my install with a 5100B bridge and get the same result, a 5500NB seems to work ok though?

Question: is there any known incompatibility issues between the current tool kit and the these old 5100B bridges, oh and while I?m on the subject of incompatibility, how about C-Bus1 four channel 20A relays? The don?t seem to have or the toolkit wont display their serial # ?s

p.s. Bridge Firmware revs are all .18c and .19

Thanks in advance

Paul

 

Appologies

Sorry all, long day, late night

meant 2 say new to the forum but not new to c-bus oops.....worked with c-bus for a couple of years now. Have spent my working life with industrial control systems, PLC's etc and am an experience 'C' programmer.

so just 2 re-assure you that I do have some idea of what i'm doing

appologies once again

Paul.

 

In all likelihood, that relay unit you're describing has a unit type of RELAY4. It won't have a software-readable serial number and it's almost certainly 4 x 10A, in either a cream or black enclosure. This is normal for that vintage of gear. If you manually enter the correct catalogue number into the Relay UI it will give you the correct description and unit graphic.

 

re 5100B Bridges

Many thanks to you both, Ashleigh and Newman for your responses, sorry for the delay in replying but, have been away for a couple of days.

The Bridge Firmware Versions are 0.18c (1 off) and 0.19 (6 off).

Re Relays, yes they are 4 channel housed in a black metal box.

 

Works for me on Toolkit 1.10.6 and a 0.18c bridge, although it did come up with an error at the end of the network scan.

I scanned my local network, clicked on the near-side of the bridge and then clicked the Make Network button. The new network was then added to my database. The error message was warning that the network bridge couldn't be added to the database for some reason. I re-addressed the unit address of the far-side of the bridge to match the local network address, as it was wrong. I then selected all units in the network view and clicked the Add/Transfer to DB button and all the programming was added to the database correctly.

It is possible that the addresses of the network bridges are wrong. The unit address of the near side of a bridge should always be the same as the network address of the network that is on the far side of the bridge. So, if my local network is at address 254 and the remote network is at address 253 then the unit address of that network bridge on the local network should be 253 and the unit address of the bridge on the remote network should be 254.

These bridges are old, so it's well and truly possible that there's a few compatibility issues. Not really sure why Toolkit is bleating about the network not being accessible but everything seems to work regardless.

 

Thanks Newman, and it does appear to be an address issue. I followed the same process as yourself, same rev of toolkit (1.10.6), same bridge firmware (0.18c), but got slightly different results plus I don't seem to be able to change the bridge address/unit address. My steps were: Scan local network, click on the bridge (Far side not near)? click Make Network button, new network is added to project db, Toolkit then gives error 3051: can't open network then followed by warning 3091: Network sucessfully added but, network could not be scanned. Scanning the new network manually fails and does not find the bridge or any other units.
But in the topology diagram all seems to be correct?! given that local net is on 254 and remote 253, highlighting the bridge in the diagram and clicking Near Side tells me that bridge links to network 253 and the unit address on that side is 253, however clicking Far Side gives error 3122:Unit not found on the network "network 253" at address 254.
Questions are: is the bridges unit address displayed in the local network unit window as 253 correct? I would have thought it should be 254 as we're looking at the local side of the bridge? but changing it to 254 is not an option as the re-address unit button only provides you with available, unused addresses? Am I missing some thing here?

Many thanks

Paul

 

When referring to far/near sides of the bridges, it is always with reference to the PC Interface you're scanning the network from. So, your PCI connects to the local network. That means that the near side of the network bridge is the one on the local network. The far side of the bridge is the one on the remote network.

I'd work through it like this:
- Scan local network
- Delete any networks in your database for that project other than the local network. Having existing networks in the database may be preventing toolkit from creating a new network at the correct address, and is therefore one possible source of error.
- Select the network bridge of interest. It will probably be called BRIDGE1F with a description of (Far Side). Ignore the description, it's an old firmware bug.
- Click Yes to the confirmation dialogue. This will automatically create a new remote network in your database with a network address that matches the corresponding Bridge address on the local network.
- After scanning, Warning - 3091 appears. Click OK.
- The remote network should now be in the database, but the database for that network will be empty.
- Finally, re-address the unit address of the Bridge on the remote network so that it matches the network address of the local network, most likely 254. If there's another unit using address 254, move it to something else. It will probably display as BRIDGE1N (Near Side). Again, ignore the description.

If it goes wrong at any one of these steps then that will help narrow down where the trouble is.

Even if it all dies with an error message, is the remote network added to the treeview of the project on the left hand side of Toolkit? If so, can you select the 'Units' node for the remote network? Opening the unit UI's from the Topology view is generally a bad idea as it gets rather broken by this old bridge firmware bug that reports the near/far side incorrectly.

Both sides of my 0.18c bridge have Application 1 on the Connections tab set to 'Lighting' and the 'Send to Adjacent' option turned off. It shouldn't matter what these are set to, but it's worth confirming.