Multi-Room Audio/HD video and RS232 control

hi all,
Newby question.

Building a new house and want to take advantage of the opportunity to ensure I have the correct cabling to future proof and deploy a few toys as well. I'm not doing this again - so want to get it "right" the first time.

whilst I'm not too hands on these days - I have been both in comms and programming, but have no experience to date with cbus. just doing a lot of reading.

The cbus lighting, security and multi-room audio seems to exceed my wants, but the star serve seems (hope Im not offending anyone) past its EOL.

Instead of starserve:

Video:I'm looking closely at a 4x4 HDMI matrix mixer which will do 1080p over cat5/6 from four sources to four locations. (http://www.intelix.com/products/digihdmi4x4.htm).

The issue I have with the AV solution is that I need to control 4 sources - which will be the same sources for the audio and video different matrix systems. I thought it more logical to use rs232 (over IR - previous bad experience) to control both the matrix mixer to control input source and the av sources to control their features (like play, stop, change station etc). This requirement alone requires 5 x rs232 interfaces (4 sources, plus a HDMI matrix mixer). goal is to control everything via cbus input devices as if it is the one system.

Is the 5500PACA the only way to get serial ports to do this simple AV type of control (at $250+ per serial port it seems expensive- wonder if I'm missing something)? Is there another solution altogther I should be considering?

Network/Phones:I plan to use the CISCO phones and switch, including the colour touch screen phones.

I was thinking it should be possible to use the CISCO touch screen phones, which can access a PC running a web server to control cbus functions via a 5500PC and some APIs.
Is there doco on how to write a web page to control cbus functions? Has anyone experience with this?

Feel free to propose other ideas - as I said I'm learning this stuff.....

 

I and a few others use a product called Charmed Quark CQC. This is a program that runs on a PC and connects to various A/V equipment, lighting systems and more.

It is ideally suited to your requirements and has it has just been announced on special.

Have a look at www.charmedquark.com for more info and a list of supported devices.

The forum for CQC is very active with a lot of people creating new drivers all the time.

And most of all it has a great C-bus driver for it

Mick

 

Which source devices are you using that allows you RS232 control?

I'm a bit confused about your setup but I come from a point of view of installing high end control systems (AMX and Crestron) into commercial rather then residential.
Finding RS232 controlled source devices in Harvey Normans will be tricky.

A neat little box of tricks that should work with CBus (Homegate, Colour Touch and Wiser) is the GC-100 product range from Global Cache.
I've used them before with Crestron to control devices remotely to good effect.

Hang on. Now that I have read your post properly I see that you want to control you system via a CISCO phone!!

Should be easy to write up some code for the CISCO to talk directly to the global cache stuff for your av control and C-Gate for your lighting.

I would keep your AV control separate to your Lighting control, this would allow you more flexibility in the future.

 

Thank-you - will investigate both your suggetions...

With respect to rs232 source devices - I suspect you are correct - unfortunately you may have driven a semi truck through the gap in my logic, although, the matrix mixer has 232 to control which source, I've found a denon, sharp and Yamaha models of blu-ray Identified a Sony 400 DVD/CD -DISC changer. ( I was hoping the newer IQ boxes have 232, but have not checked yet) Thats as far as I had gone. Does anyone have models of DVDs, Blu-ray, tuners etc... they reliably use for their standard source equipment?
It would be great to have a list of rs232 devices somewhere we could add to over time.

I did a little reading on Wiser (the marketing material is the best I've seen. 10/10 for the interactive demo exe - but technically I cannot see much detail) - it appears have a website/webserver for cbus control. Has anyone attempted to access these pages from a CISCO phone? Are there published details about which mobiles or what browsers or screen resolutions the web sites work with - or are these installable client applications that talk to the wiser?

 

Check out Digitalview set top boxes for RS232 controlled HD set top box with hard drive recorder.
Denon make DVD and BluRay boxes with RS232 ports for control.
They also make some really nice receiver amps like the AVR3808 with RS232.
Altronics are selling a tuner with RS232.

The Digitalview is nice but I prefer the topfield (which doesnt have rs232 support) and MCE over it.
Denon are great but im sure they are more expensive then everyone else.
No idea on the quality of the Altronics gear.
No idea on FoxtelIQ2 RS232 control support.
Any other ideas you had for source devices?

I think the wiser stuff is Flash based so any flash enabled browser should work (vector based scales nicely to any size browser).
It's still too new for me to comment on regarding control API's but there is an MCE interface so there might be some sort of API there. Just not sure if Clipsal will be willing to share it.

 

Thanks again filpee,

These devices also seem to have IR cables directly , rather than using the stick-on emitters (which is where I have experenced the pain). If I step back for a minute - in your experience - is this also a sensible way forward also? when do you use IR vs 232?

It seems that the C-Bus audio mixer only has two IR out transmitters, although it can take four sources... is this a limitation or am I missing something again.

 

Matrix

You can put a dual head ir transmitter on both of those channels giving you four channels. Then in the programming you tell the matrix which channel to broadcast the ir command over.

 

When I either run out of RS232 ports to control stuff (although in this case I would just buy an extra global cache or some other TCP to serial adaptor) or the device cannot be controlled via RS232.

 

The topfield 5000 (non HDTV) has RS232 support (I have this with CQC). Simple stuff out of the box, but I have trialed a TAP that gives more functionality through the serial port. The 7000 uses the same codes for basic control (ch+/-, Vol+/-, direct number input etc) to the 7000HD PVR should be the same. You cant unfortunately get the list of recorded programs from it.

LG have excellent device control via RS232 for their TV's (I have this with CQC)
Sharp are next on the list (I have set this up with CQC)
To go further with TV's you need to start looking at comercial models for RS232 support (although Panasonic in the USA have serial in their consumer range)

Yamaha also have a comprehensive set of protocols for their amps (I have set this with CQC)

In my experience with the Pay TV boxes, you will be pushing the proverbial uphill to get the protocol docs. I tried for Austar and got no reply. Even going back to the manufacturer got me know-where

Most projectors have a serial port that will give various levels of control, but with a projector minimal control only is really needed, you do the setup with the remote and then use the serial for input and power. ( I have set up a panasonic, NEC and Runco)

For larger devices/systems, The Ness M1 has an Ethernet interface that allows control of the alarm/automation system via ascii (it also has a c-bus interface) (I have this with CQC)

Advantage Air (Aust made A/C) has a Home Automation interface for Rs232 control (I have this with CQC).

So you see there are lots of options out there, unfortunately the reality of it is that anyting with serial will cost you more. Take the amp situation, none of the low end models have serial control, its only when you start spending $1500+ that you start to see it. I understand this, but would like to see it in the lower models as they make great second room amps

One of the advantages of using a system like CQC, AMX Crestron, Control4 is that a lot of the work has been done for you in developing the interface/driver. CQC has a DIY version so you can create your own interfaces on your own PC and write your own drivers (how it talks to equipment). I dont have a lot of experience with AMX or Crestron, but I believe you need an approved installed to do anything for you.

If you are interested more in what CQC can offer and have questions you can PM me and I will show you what it is capable of and what I have done.

Mick

 

is there a wiser interactive demo? would be very useful

 

wiser interactive demo

yes. I found it here.
http://www.cleverhome.com.au/products/Clipsal-C-Bus-Wiser-Home-Controller.shtml

 

I had a trial version of CQC running but for an end user you really need some capability and patience to come to terms with it all. CQC is a very powerful application designed and supported by a very clever person, with loads of different device drivers available written by similarly clever people. Unfortunately for me my lack of cleverness prevented me from progressing to the licensed version. Something else to be mindful of with CQC is the annual licensing fee.

In the end I decided on Philips Pronto to control my home theater components, the guts of which is Rs232 based. No need to worry about pre-wiring here because it's a wireless based system that connects via a wireless access point to a black box that sends out the Rs232 or IR commands to where they're needed. And of course Pronto can communicate with CBUS over a PCI, to control your lighting and virtually anything else on CBUS (like projection screens, curtain and shutter control and the like).

I have Pronto and CBUS and my lack of cleverness hasn't prevented me from getting it all working nicely as a DIY install.

 

Hi,

I'm also looking at options for distributing HDMI video signals over UTP cabling. I found a company in Taiwan that manufacturers 4x4 and 8x8 matrix switchers. Here is the link to the 4x4:

http://www.gomax-electronics.com.tw/Product/vcat5/MA5144/ma5144.htm

Cheers,
Dray.

 

You can access the Internet version of the Wiser home controller interactive demonstration from the following page:

Wiser Interactive Demo

There is also a high resolution version of it available on CD from CIS systems integrators, which is approximately 600MB in size.