Multiple c-bus panels for 1 house...

Lets see I have gone through 3 sparky's so far... one retired, one gave up his job to go live overseas, the third one.... well he has been going to show up each week for the last 3 weeks....

Might be looking for a new one - lol. Anyway - I should have planned better. My home installation, I thought I had it all sorted out and setup - remember I had asked about putting a panel for the c-bus under the stairs... Well I got past that stage - found a location central next to the stairs and started from there...

Now the frame has been completed, the cladding on, the renderer's have moved in - I started counting everything up again - so I changed a couple of things... And now I realise there are 30 odd circuits upstairs (dimming / relay).

So 30 lines to be crammed downstairs to my original c-bus panel. Aha - I think those could be terminated upstairs now....

My question though relates to the c-bus pink cable and best practice....

Can you should you would you - or dont worry... from panel 1 to panel 2 would you just wire directly the c-bus pink cable or is it okay that it is wired with other devices before it.. ie. Panel 1 goes to switch which goes to another switch which goes to a touch screen which goes to a switch which goes to the upstairs panel 2 containing dimmers and relays...

I am guessing it does not matter, as it is all protocol driven - just looking for an opinion if that is best practice or not ?

TIA

 

Doesn't matter, as long as you don't exceed the total cable length for a single network (which in a residential is very unlikely) and you don't create any cable loops (eg, sw1 > sw2 > sw3 > panel > sw1 ). Or more likely inadvertently doing something like this:

Code:

   SW1 -- SW2 -- SW3 -- Panel -- SW4 -- SW5
    |                                    |
    |                                    |
    |                                    |
   SW6 -- SW7 -- SW8 -- SW9 -- Panel -- SW10

But a CBus installer should know this.

 

If I am reading this correctly your question is a) how best to make cabling zones and b) which products in the market assist with cable management.



I have always been very fortunate to have large houses to work on and we basically treated each floor as its own sytem and ran a link between the floors to make it one network.

So each floor, to some extent, had a concealed C-bus panel next to the concealed alarm DGP (GE product), next to the concealed break-out box for the Cat6 on that level. All of this would usually hide itself in the main closet on that floor and then a false panel would be put over it and look totally like a normal closet.

It only takes one cable to interlinked concealed panels (and one for a rainy day).

If your house is much smaller and your cabling proportionately more complex (as it sounds to be) then the mass of cabling in the main control area isnt really the problem.

Using products such as Wago from NHP you will find that the multitude of terminations collapse into a simple load management. The problem isnt the active cables its the earth and neutrals.

I spent (wasted according to the sparky) a lot of my clients money on Clipsal lightning protection, over-voltage protection and single-width MCB-RCD which increased the density and stability of the overall project. (then came a thunderstorm and everything except the telstra cable modem lived)

With professional products such as Wago or Krone Terminator (400V IDC) you can spend up to $2000 on a house but I have started on a 1500 wire termination and the next day (working overnight) it was all done. The electrician doing the hot water was struck dumb. you have to ask yourself what is more expensive. Little plastic blocks or someone standing in a corner for a week doing all of the wiring (which takes far less time with management for cabling).

These are my tips. I dont know your project or your budget but if you invest heavily into sensible products, the upfront costs spreads out over many years of enjoyment (not to mention protecting your C-Bus).

Suggested reading

http://www.nhp.com.au/p_enclosures_termination.asp

http://www.kroneindopac.com/ADC/site_images/5138-terminator_system.pdf

I used Krone TErminator quite a lot and you will find it in many machines which require a vibration resistance. It is extremely fast and easy to install. The only problem is that I dont know if they still offer it in Australia. It is pretty much like having a patch panel for 240V.

I was a very early adopter of Cat 6 joiners from Krone also.

 

Thanks guys...
Good input and agree with both of you...

They do, but like most things - there are many ways of skinning that cat - and despite any installer's good looks or intentions - I am technically minded to challenge his decisions. Reckon I must have been a sparky in a previous life ?

Although I understand it all - I aint doing it - not allowed, but that does not mean I cannot challenge the way he is suggesting it. Want to have it done right, and not cut corners by having that sparky wanting to get in and get out as quickly as he can. So I offer my input, and ask for his opinion or suggestion.

From a tidy / best practice point of view - was just seeking opinions.

 

Everything that has been stated I cant dispute.

Consider having the Cat5 that links the upstairs and downstairs accessible so that if you have any issues you can disconnect the link between the two floors.

Best practice is to have the power supplies evenly distributed across the network to avoid voltage drop, so panel to panel may not achieve this as you would have the two ends with lower voltage (assuming that the power supplies are roughly central to the install).

There is a document on the CIS site that discusses this issue.

Mick

 

I think most of those guys are now cable TV installers. Some of the tripe they talk is incredible.

I dont mind if an electrician gets out fast .... the real job is to specify what needs to be done. If you can get a room by room breakdown of the position and height of everything then the rest is really just careful installation work.

Just be aware that tiles and floors need a clearance from the slab so add that dimension to the height of the switches from the floor.