Ok. Get ready for some "prickly" questions

I want someone from CIS to answer the following questions?

1/ Why isn't there timely updates of cbus Windows drivers? The last driver is dated 2008. I can't get WIN7 64 bit to connect to my PAC via USB

2/ Why isn't there a new upgraded PAC (with more memory, and an IP/ethernet interface)?

3/ And don't say.."well just use the WISER"..this is not an alternative. It is unreliable (occasionally needs rebooting), and portable (therefore can be stolen out of a house)

4/ Better still, why can't you design a simpler to use PICED and toolkit web interface to use from a web browser...so we can make simple a fast changes to our project via http within our own networks...thereby negating all these windows issues, and making interaction with our projects independent from whatever home computer platform we use ?

 

Upgraded PAC = Mark 11 B&W touchscreen, if all you are after is a little more memory. Obviously no IP / ethernet functionality though. If you wanted that, then maybe a small box PC running homegate, = all the memory you could want, and IP / ethernet compatible..not exactly an upgraded PAC but still, workable

 

Omg

Thanks for the effort in the replies.

Do you guy's at CIS REALLY understand how much I hate this software? How unfriendly it is to use? How the GUI of PICED is so out of date now.

Only today I spent an hour changing my project only to lose the lot of work because it crashed.

You simply HAVE to move to a better platform..

 

Some people are harder to please than others I suppose.

 

Yep. I guess..

Look, my point is, PICED files run in UNIX right? And the entire project files are tiny.

Now I have a Wiser, and there is a great experience of logging on anywhere on my network and making Cbus network changes easily. Anywhere.

But PICED on the PAC is entirely different. I have to sit under a dark stairwell with a USB attached to a tiny laptop and use what looks to me to be GUI from Windows 95 or something. Now being Unix programming, why can't CIS adapt this to LINUX to allow users to just launch a browser and make changes "on the fly"..with out all this USB COM conflict port nonsense log on/off. Upload/download (now which file is my current project file?..heck I can't remember !!)..driver hassles, Win64 upgrade changes etc etc..etc etc.

That goes for PICED on the WISER I might add, why isn't there a simple way to change this via the browser as well..it's rather silly that you still do the upload/download thing as well onto a device that you browse onto to view everything in the first place..it seems sort of "half baked".

Look, I know this is a view from a lay person, who doesn't really know how easy this would be to implement, but from a practical user point of view, it sure would be easier to just web browse onto a project file (be it on a PAC or WISER)...make a couple of logic changes on the fly, then just log off

 

No dongle

The only issue with this is the dongle. PLEASE CIS bring out a version with out a USB dongle so we can run HOMEGATE in a virtual environment, without needing network USB hub just for the dongle

 

Hi Charlie Crackle
Why run a virtual machine then.
What's the benefit?

 

"I have to sit under a dark stairwell with a USB attached to a tiny laptop and use what looks to me to be GUI from Windows 95 or something"

Maybe put a light in under the stairwell?

 

PICED does not run in Unix. It is Windows only.

Yes, that is one of the major benefits of Wiser.

PAC is for a completely different purpose. If we added an Ethernet interface and a web server then we would have Wiser, but we already have that product.

PICED does not run on Wiser, and never will. They are completely different bits of software with a completely different purpose.

There are technical reasons for why this is extremely difficult.

It is always good to receive feedback, and we do appreciate it. What we really need is to understand the problems you are facing, rather than being given solutions for a problem we don't necessarily fully understand. It may be that there are existing solutions, or the problems can be solved in other ways.

 

Thanks for explanation Darren

Hi Darren. Thanks heaps for that. The Wiser is not a supplement for a PAC. It might seem to you guys to be so from a programming point of view. But functionally it's not a substitute. Wiser as I said is portable, therefore easy to steal. Separately powered. Prone to need rebooting. The PAC is hardwired, robust, never needs rebooting. For critical logic and management, I can depend on the PAC. I could not depend on the Wiser for this.

The problems I am facing, and always have is the dreaded USB connection and com port serial conflicts and driver issues. Every time there is a Windows upgrade or computer upgrade at my place I have these issues. It is STILL not clear on your download site whether the drivers are OK with Win64 for example. Information is scarce.

I dream of a PAC like device that is networkable, and one day I simply browse onto my project file, make a few quick changes, like adjusting a timer or adding a couple of groups to a scene then log off..All done in a couple of minutes from anywhere on my network. OSX/Windows independant. Even my dealer making changes remotely. This simply would be superb. And I feel a major improvement and something well worthy of what (appears to me as an outsider anyway)...CIS's limited development budget.. I do appreciate you guys are pressed for time and obviously have lots on your plate. But I feel this sort of PAC (Even WISER) upgrade would be a priority

Cheers

 

Thanks for clarification Ashleigh

Yes it does> Doesn't make the user experience any better though

Lets face it. PICED's GUI, the drivers. The way it works by upload/download, the time it takes for toolkit to connect and disconnect. The dependance on Windows. The whole user experience seems dated, clumbsy and problematic to an end user like me. I do appreciate the difficulties it would take to change this, but feel PICED is only going to get more dated, the faster everything in the world moves to browser http programming changes on the fly and cloud computing etc etc. CIS might as well bite the bullet now and add this functionality. If they don't now, it's only going to get worse IMHO. If not now? When?

Cheers.

 

USB over IP

Maybe as a work around to save you crouching under the dark stairwell you could fit a network USB hub, essentially putting the PAC onto the network at an IP address.
Yes most of these devices require an external plug pack, but for the small cost of them it could save you leaving your office if you set up your port forwarding correctly!

Not sure what CIS's official take on uploading projects over a networked USB port would be, maybe if it crashes you will have to take your laptop back to the PAC!
Just a thought...

 

What you have said here pretty much sums things up....

I assume (rightly or wrongly) you have not undertaken any of the C-Bus training courses where most of what has been explained in response to your post, is covered in great detail. I also assume (again rightly or wrongly) that you don't install this system for a living.

Having worked with virtually all of the available control products commonly available for the home over the last 15 years, the power and flexibility (not to mention the ease of use) of this system blows the rest out of the water!

The software used for C-Bus is free! Every other system requires you to either buy the software and/or undertake training before you can even look at it.

That being said, Schneider/Clipsal are continuing to develop new products that are heavily researched and will be very much appreciated by the market.

I like the suggestion by SBL that you should put a light under the stairs... maybe I could sell you a dimmer to control it?

 

I think this is a matter of perspective. There are many cases in automation where you actually prefer systems that are not accessible via internet networks, where the programming is safe from virus's and fiddlers. The PICED and general commissioning software is not really to cater to regular reprogramming of a system by an end user, it is more for programmers to commission the system at the start. The fact that pretty much anybody can hack around with it and program a C-Bus system with a little fiddling and reading is a credit to how simple CIS have made the process. Dealing with issues and frustration of com ports, windows driver updates, making connections to hardware systems - all par for the course if you want to be a programmer or generally work in any kind of IT related field. Some automation platforms have great looking GUI's and sell themselves on swish simple to set up flashy graphics, but underneath this, they are pretty basic and limited. Despite its flaws, C-Bus with all its quirks is still one of the most flexible, powerful and user friendly systems out there. Just don't let it know your afraid of it when you go to connect that com port...and remember to say the magic words

 

Thanks for that Mr Conformist

End user. Not installer. No hidden agenda. Only to make life simpler for all those little programming and logic tweek's we all like to do.. That's all. It can get rather costly at $ 150 initial call out, plus hrly rate just to get an integrator to reschedule a light bulb. Get my drift? Now if he or I could do this via http:....cheers.

 

1) Already have machine running other Virtual Machines (Serial Processors VM),C-Bus Ripple VM, Air Play Air Print VM) I would just add another one running HOME-GATE.

2) No more power requirements

3) No more hardware requirements

4) No more noise from more computer fans


HOME-GATE would then get me out of the limits the other platforms have.
Eg. more energy meters. I get a screen I can project other hardware screens and multimedia devices.

I could do all this now it is just the USB dongle.
To get USB on a virtual machine you need to connect external hardware

http://www.digi.com/products/usb/anywhereusb#overview

I have tried cheaper ones bit they have issues that you need to be logged in and not running as a service. DIGI just work but you pay for this reliability.

THen I waist more power running this hardware and more ethernet ports are needed.

Please bring a version of homegate that does not need a dongle.

and I will buy a copy !



May be have a new version HOMEGATE-VM edition.
This one comes with a CNI and the software will only connect to this CNI mac address.

Bring out a CBUS Dongle. A little box that plugs on the cbus that can hold licences with c-bus connection. All hardware/software query the device ID for Authorisation.



Charles

 

Hello Charlie Crackle
Wow, sounds like you have a lot going on there.
Sorry I thought you might have been wanting to run homegate on a Macbook or something along that line.
I cant remember where now but I think I was reading that the newer Intel Motherboards have usb hardware support for VM.