Orphaned command reply query (again)

I continue to get these messages (perhaps 20-30 per day) but the system is otherwise stable. I note in previous threads that these occurring occasionally is ok but not frequently. The messages below occurred between ~8.30pm and 5.00pm the next day.


20090809-203446 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 44 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090809-204901 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 22 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090809-205125 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 40 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090809-210230 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 54 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090809-224842 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 43 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090809-234129 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 23 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-001006 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 49 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-003853 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 20 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-014106 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 41 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-025653 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 48 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-044031 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 44 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-051118 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 43 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-061146 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 21 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-084256 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 52 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-095632 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 41 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-111204 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 22 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-132324 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 54 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-132334 840 //DUFFYS/253 b0ba28c0-652e-102c-931d-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 188 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-133655 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 43 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-145557 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 24 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-152648 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 28 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-164118 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 49 (suggests unit address conflict)
20090810-165635 840 //DUFFYS/254 a39d12b0-652e-102c-930f-f51b51232d9a Orphaned command reply for unit 43 (suggests unit address conflict)

There are no duplicate units on the network or errors showing via diagnostic utility.

What IS interesting is that I have two networks bridged. On the second network there are 30 shutter controllers and two power supplies. If I disconnect ALL the shutter controllers from the network (253) I get no orphaned comand reply errors. As soon as I reconnect these the errors start. Given all these shutter controllers are in a single board and are simply looped by the clipsal supplied leads it seems unlikely to be a wiring issue. All units are located in the same control room, within a few metres of each other.

Just wondering if anyone could shed light on why these errors might occur only when the shutters are connected on the second network. Note that the unit numbers above are various relays, dimmers etc and there seems to be no consistency with the unit number and error ie: it could be any of the dimmers or relays or other input units that are listed. All the units are less than two years old.

Thanks

Andrew

 

Fair enough! Will generate a log and post.

Thanks

 

Wasn't sure a snippet would be enough (it might need to be a big snippet) so attached is a zip file containing the level 9 log from around 13:20 to 15:20 today. There are 19 instances of the orphaned command response error.

Homegate 4.6.1
Toolkit Version 1.10.6
C-Gate 2.7.1 (build 2273). C-Gate is running on dedicated Win XP SP3.

When this log was created only c-gate was running. No connections from Toolkit or Homegate.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Many thanks.

 

looking at the first two orphaned replies, I can see that they ashould have been expected:

..
1A2A06 request 1 for information from unit 15 on local network
86 150100 8D0438FFFF7D83188046B9B803004B reply 1 from earlier request, unit 15
\46 15 00 2110 request 2 for information from unit 15
86 150100 872AAD4510471D65E8 reply 1 from unit 15 - reported as orphan


later:
.. 2A11 0C request for information from unit 1(remote)
...
\46 17 00 2104 request1 for information from unit 17(local)
...
86 FD0101B0 8D11FF00000000000000000000002E reply from unit 1(remote)
2A1D04 request2 for information from unit 17(local)
...
86 170100 8D0438FFFF7D8318804961BA03009C reply1 fron unit 17(local)
\46 17 00 2110 request3 for information from unit 17(local)
...
86 170100 851D00000000C0 reply 2 from unit 17 - reported as orphan

The units are behaving themselves, and
at least in these two examples all replies can be accounted for.
It seems the polling at the changeover from polling remote units (where additional delays must be applied) to polling local units (no delay required) is somehow getting mixed up and losing an occasional reply.

This is not a big thing, as the information requests are repeated successfully later, but your observation will probably be useful to help fine-tune the tools.

 

Thanks Don. Reassuring to know there is no fundamental problem in the setup.

 

Just wondered. If I am getting this on a network with 99 units on one network and ~30 units on the second network, what happens on those really big sites where there might be 5, 10 or 20 networks? Do they constantly generate these messages?

 

If its not affecting anything don't worry bout it, sometimes cbus can do strange things. Even so;

Shutter Relays can be a pain sometimes, esp powering them. If you network has 30 shutter relays you need at least 2 external power supplies. Try with hw burden not software and set one relay with another clock. Don't plug burden into power supplys it can ruin them! Almost every major cbus issue I've come across tends to come back to power. Can't have too much, can't have too little.

90 units is pretty much the limit that one network can have without strange things happening, if you can move just a couple of units onto your shutter network see if it still spits out these replies.

Change the unit address numbers for shutter relays from 1-30 (presumeably) to 100+ or in other words continue on from your last network and keep all unique.

Plug your PCI into this shutter network and have the other as remote, see what happens then.

These are pretty basic things you might have already tried, personally only 30 of these 'orphaned replies' a day is totally stable and working in my books.

 

Still occurring Daniel.

I received a Tech Support response regarding this (mantis #19101 - Case 8240) which said this occurs when there are units on the same address on both networks. I have two networks but have all units on unique addresses across the networks - so this can't be the cause of the errors on my networks.

As mentioned earlier though, I have 30 shutter relays on the second network. When these are disconnected the orphaned reply commands do not occur. All shutter relays are Firmware version 2.2.00.

 

Hi Daniel

The cbus.tx-compress=no has reduced the orphaned commands significantly - now only 4-5 per day instead of 30-40.

Would you still like the logs?

Thanks

Andrew