Outdoor Heaters

I actually have two queries:

Question 1. I have purchased 4 celmec (http://www.heatray.net/au/index.html) ERH heaters. These heaters have 2 elements in each heater so that they can be switched Hi / Lo. The specs say 0.6kW Lo and 1.2kW Hi power consumption.

So If my understanding is correct, if I have 4 of these connected they will draw 10 amps at Lo and an additional 10 amps when both elements are on (Hi). Sorry about the long preamble - but my question is

can I use my 5512RVF (two channels - one for Hi and one for Lo) to control these heaters? I obviously need to have each channel of the relay capable of handling 10 amps - my confusion is that the pdf specifications file for the 5512RVF say

"The Series includes units complete with 10A rated relays for
resistive, inductive or fluorescent loads and separate units
complete with relays rated at 10A resistive load and 1A
fluorescent load."

So - I am probably misinterpreting the specifications for the 5512RVF - but what particular relay should I be using for this application?

Question 2.

I am looking to upgrade my security system while I am in the process of renovating - what model brand would people recommend / suggest that is CBUS compatible. It is a residential application with no more than 8 motion detectors and no more than 4 reed switches. I would like to be able to arm and disarm the alarm via my Color Touch Screen - infact have a "Going Out" button on the Color Touch Panel which would control a scene which would turn the lights off after a few minutes and arm the alarm etc etc after I leave the home.

Thanks again.

 

There was another 1A Relay (L5512RVFB) with 1A rating for Fluorescent. The 10A Relay (L5512RVF) is 10A rating for all as listed.

For security with C-Bus system, there is a unit called MinderPro (5300TCU8/8). It is basically a security panel with C-Bus interface. There are similar products from other brands but if you want support from clipsal it is better to use their product. I guess the software has been modified too so it is easier to use when you want to program it with C-Bus system (I haven't used the MinderPro myself).

Now my question: how to connect a relay for low power mode and a relay for a high power mode of ONE heater? Wouldn't it be more common to have a relay for one or two heaters (while it rates 1.2kW, I would rather use one channel for each heater rather than hitting the limit of the relay because C-Bus relay is not cheap)

 

I assume these things plug in?

You need to treat these heaters individualy, if a user can switch them between high & low then you have to allow for worst case.

Each heater worst case can draw 5A. In theory you could run 2 of these units off a single 10A relay, but I wouldn't, I don't like running that close to the limits.

I would put each of these units on a single 10A relay channel.

No doubt others will have more advice on particular model relay units.

 

Thanks for the input guys.

I think I will purchase the L5504RVF20 so that I can run the 4 heaters (Lo) on one channel and (Hi) on another channel.

I shouldn't have any problems using this configuration correct?

Thanks for the security system info, I will do some research on the CLIPSAL security system to ensure it is suitable for my application.

Again Thanks

 

How are you going to do this? Do these heaters have seperate feeds for each element? Are they hardwired or do they plug in?

If they have a hi/lo switch on them that the user can switch, then you can't do what you are saying.

Ignoring C-Bus for a minute, how would they be conventionally wired?

 

Sorry for not elaborating enough.

The heaters each have, what I believe to be two identical elements in them which are wired (hardwired no plugs) independently. So I had planned to get the electrician to hardwire the 1st element of all 4 heaters to one circuit which would be controled by one relay channel, and same for the 2nd element of all 4 heaters which would be controled by another relay channel.

So if you want Lo heat you have one relay channel active / on, and if you want Hi heat you have both the relay channels active / on.

Does that sound like a reasonable thing to do??

PS I cant find any info on the Clipsal site about the MinderPro Security system. - or am I just blind and not looking in the right place.

 

You probably have thought of it, but make sure you have both elements on the same phase, otherwise you will have 415v inside the appliance. Should label that it has two different feeds also.

Cheers,

 

For minderPro, it is in the clipsal security web site:

http://www.clipsalsecurity.com/products/alarmMinder.asp

I haven't looked at it in details, but your dealer should be able to get you some help.

For the relay, 20A relay is a logical and straight forward solution. If you already have 10A relay and spare channels, you may use external contactor or four channels (2 for every two heaters)..etc. As long as your electrician is happy with what he is doing, it should be ok. I still don't understand how you can hardwire elements of a single heater (especially outdoor) safely and without having the warranty void. I guess their System Control Module may help. But again, as long as your electrician is happy, it should be fine because he is the one having all the detail in hand.

 

Hi NickD.

Them heaters aint cheap. I saw them installed at a restaurant alfresco area at CECCONI's at Melbournes Crown Casino, and really liked them. They are aimed at the commercial market, not really the domestic market, consequently they are around $500 AUD including mounting bracket.

The guys at celmec actually recommend having the heaters installed quite close together - between .5 an 1 metre apart as they really need to surround the area needing to be heated. They are a "soft" radiant heater not a "blast furnace" type of heater. So in larger areas domestically it becomes very expensive.

Hope that helps