Piced 3.5 Ramps

It appears the ramp rates do not work in 3.5 and only rate you get is 4 seconds, attached pic of button setup.


log file entry.
3:36:03 PM C-Bus Tx : Ramp Trigger Control, XTrig Centre Area to Idel over 4s (User Click/Scene "Cooking")
3:36:03 PM C-Bus Tx : Set Trigger Control, XTrig Centre Area to Cooking (User Click)

dave

 

Hi Dave,

I've just had a look and I cant replicate what you have in the log. I also noticed that you are working with a 'trigger control' group. A ramp command is not actually valid for this application and PICED will not allow this to be sent onto C-Bus.

If you like to send me a copy of your PICED and toolkit project I can take a further look at what might be going on.

regards,

Matty

 

Matty
Send me an email with your email address and i will send you the files.
I did not make up the screen or the log file - piced did
dave

 

Yes Matty is a CIS employee. If you send the files to Tech Support and ask them to forward them to Matt in Test and Verification he will get them.

Matt was NOT suggesting that you made up the logs or screen, just that he was unable to reproduce the problem. His coment regarding PICED not allowing a ramp command to be sent on the Trigger Application does not mean that you could not configure it, but just that it won't actually do what you asked.

 

This is what I use it for in every touch screen for controlling blinds and curtains and such like, yes it does control scenes in the end. So I have one trigger group say “blinds east” and two levels “up” and “down” so only one can be active at a time. Then 2 scenes up and down that turn off and on the correct groups and therefore stop both up and down being on at the same time, a third scene does the stoping either by a button press or time out on the level.
I can ashore you it works well and is implemented in all out sites.

PS Checking some of the other old projects, they still work OK so its just this new one which I will send to Matty.
Can there be something added to the user so we can tell the CIS people from the normal user.

dave

 

In the picture it shows the set-up for a button which, as you say, is set to be instantaneous (0 seconds). In the log extract, this corresponds to the second of the two items which does indeed have a ramp rate of 0 seconds.

The first log command in which you have highlighted the 4 second ramp rate was generated by a scene and has nothing to do with the ramp rate of the button.

As Ashleigh has posted, the trigger application does not support non-zero ramp rates. If you try to do use a non-zero ramp rate with the trigger application on a button, you get a warning 14076. Trigger Application messages with a non-zero ramp rate can not be sent onto C-Bus from PICED. If you look at the C-Gate messages, you will see that there is no ramp rate in the command.

 

Darren old buddy,

Have agree and disagree(with reservation) with you

1:
The first log command in which you have highlighted the 4 second ramp rate was generated by a scene and has nothing to do with the ramp rate of the button.

Agee already told Matty my fault, was in scene.

2:
As Ashleigh has posted, the trigger application does not support non-zero ramp rates. If you try to do use a non-zero ramp rate with the trigger application on a button, you get a warning 14076.

Never seen a warning message as above even with 3.5, try my first post- press Ok, will not cause an error.
Have a look at projects I sent Matty, all work fine with no warnings.
Can also send you many more in production that work ok.

3:
Trigger Application messages with a non-zero ramp rate can not be sent onto C-Bus from PICED. If you look at the C-Gate messages, you will see that there is no ramp rate in the command.

My fault, I do not care if not sent to C-Bus, I’m looking for a timeout on the button which triggers a “Stop” scene within the Ctouch, so the ramp time is used to indicate the travel time for say the blind then trigger a "stop" scene.
works well in many production sites


dave

 

I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I noticed that the original screen grab you posted has the key set as a timer. Could it be that you are referring to timers and not ramp rates? From your description above it doesn't seem as if ramps are what you want, but timers would most likely do the trick.

Maybe the original report you meant to post was that timers were not working for you correctly in 3.5?

 

I expected that

It doesn't warn you everywhere that it should. One of the many things on the "to do list" is to add a few more checks for this, or to prevent the user from doing it in the first place.

I am not sure exactly what you mean here. I have been at work for over 10 hours and am VERY tired, so it is probably just my brain getting foggy. I will go and see Matt on Monday and look at the project itself.

 

Darren,
Good to see you still laugh after 10 hours on the job.
This is what I?m doing, need a way with blinds so that only one direction is active at time and DLT text can be used on switches, so use level on trigger groups (no DLT text on lighting app levels and second app can not be trigger groups in Toolkit).
So have an ?up?, ?down? and ?stop? scenes set at up=125, down=255 and stop =0 then when on touch you press ?up? button goes to 125 and times out to zero (same with down), therefore setting the time dictates the travel for blind before ?stop? scene activated.
Also can set a DLT switch to these preset level and get DLT text on buttons at same time
dave

 

Controlling Motorised Devices

Dave,

First of all the blinds should be electrically interlocked using two channels of a Change Over relay.

TOOLKIT

Create one GA for that blind in the 'Trigger' application e.g. KITCHEN BLINDS.

Create four 'Action Selectors' e.g. 0 = OFF, 1 = OPEN, 2 = STOP, 3 = CLOSE within than GA.

I presume that you are using three buttons to control the blinds? OPEN / STOP / CLOSE.

Setup the OPEN / STOP / CLOSE button functions as a 'Scene' within the DLT. Edit the details for that function by selecting the box to the right of the 'function' drop down box.

Select 'KITCHEN BLINDS' from the 'Trigger Group' drop down box, select the required 'Trigger Group Action Selector' from the drop down box - i.e. OPEN. Leave the other options in that window as default - Scene 1 and Instant.

Setup the output unit (Change Over relay) for the required GA's i.e. -
Channel 1 = KITCHEN BLIND 1 OPEN
Channel 3 = KITCHEN BLIND 1 CLOSE
Channel 3 = KITCHEN BLIND 2 OPEN
Channel 4 = KITCHEN BLIND 2 CLOSE


PICED

Create a scene for the blinds along these lines -

FOR THE OPEN COMMAND:
KITCHEN BLIND 1 CLOSE to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 CLOSE to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 1 OPEN to Level '100%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 OPEN to Level '100%', Ramp Rate '0s'.

SCENE TRIGGER:
NETWORK: NETWORK1
APPLICATION: Trigger Control
GROUP ADDRESS: KITCHEN BLINDS
TAG: OPEN

FOR THE STOP COMMAND:
KITCHEN BLIND 1 CLOSE to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 CLOSE to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 1 OPEN to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 OPEN to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.

SCENE TRIGGER:
NETWORK: NETWORK1
APPLICATION: Trigger Control
GROUP ADDRESS: KITCHEN BLINDS
TAG: STOP

FOR THE CLOSE COMMAND:
KITCHEN BLIND 1 OPEN to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 OPEN to Level '0%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 1 CLOSE to Level '100%', Ramp Rate '0s'.
KITCHEN BLIND 2 CLOSE to Level '100%', Ramp Rate '0s'.

SCENE TRIGGER:
NETWORK: NETWORK1
APPLICATION: Trigger Control
GROUP ADDRESS: KITCHEN BLINDS
TAG: CLOSE

You will need to setup your timers for the OPEN / STOP / CLOSE functions in the 'Constants' section of the Logic Engine. Here's one I prepared earlier -

KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer = 1;
KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer = 2;
KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer = 3;

Another good idea is to setup reset the timers in the 'Intialisation' section of the Logic Engine. Here's one I prepared earlier -

TimerStop (KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer);
TimerStop (KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer);
TimerStop (KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer);

OK, now we need to write some code to control the blinds. Here's one I prepared earlier -

{BLIND LOGIC CONTROL - OPEN}
once (GetCBusLevel("NETWORK1", "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS") = 1 {"OPEN"} ) then
begin
TimerStart(KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer);
end;

once TimerTime(KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer) = "0:00:45" then
begin
SetCBusLevel("NETWORK1", "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS", "OFF", 0);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer);
end;

{BLIND LOGIC CONTROL - STOP}
once (GetCBusLevel("NETWORK1", "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS") = 2 {"STOP"} ) then
begin
TimerStart(KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer);
end;

once TimerTime(KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer) = "0:00:02" then
begin
SetCBusLevel("NETWORK1, "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS", "OFF", 0);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer);
end;

{BLIND LOGIC CONTROL - CLOSE}
once (GetCBusLevel("NETWORK1", "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS") = 3 {"CLOSE"} ) then
begin
TimerStart(KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSOpenTimer);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSStopTimer);
end;

once TimerTime(KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer) = "0:00:45" then
begin
SetCBusLevel("NETWORK1", "Trigger Control", "KITCHEN BLINDS", "OFF", 0);
TimerStop(KITCHEN BLINDSCloseTimer);
end;

You will find that the scenes will be fired by the trigger levels and LED on the DLT will stay on for the nominated time as well as following the current direction of the blinds.

No need to rely on ramp rates etc. Just setup your timers accordingly.

I hope this helps.

 

Peter
First off 'Ramp" was the wrong word should have use "Pulse", all ramps set to zero.
The pulse gives me the timer function.

Second, have many places with this working already.

Third most implemented with B/W touch so no logic engine.

The rest is pretty much as you describe.
Butons on touch and DLT stay on for time period then go off.

And the big problem was in first post as I have said - its was my fault in scene.
and if logic used can not use tags on level ie "high,"low" etc got to use %.

tks
dave

 

In summary
1: My mistake in Thread Header – should not have use “ramp” should have use “pulse”.
2: My error was in one of my scenes.
3: No one, me including looked at my post 1 – there is no ramp value
What I have learnt.
4: There is no such thing as a ramp rate in Trigger control - it is a meaningless concept. Trigger Control is for triggering scenes.
The defect (if any) is that when trigger control is selected, the ramp rate can still be chosen. PICED should prevent you from choosing a ramp rate in applications where it has no meaning.( Ashleigh)
5: Warning 14076.
It doesn't warn you everywhere that it should. One of the many things on the "to do list" is to add a few more checks for this, or to prevent the user from doing it in the first place. (Darren)
6:Good piece of logic code from Peter Coman, should add to logic thread.
7:Tag Level Names.
The problem lies in the fact that the touch screen uses the V2 Cbus tag format. C-Bus v2 file format only allows level tags to be applied to applications and not to GA's. Toolkit allows level tags to applied to GA's individually.
Toolkit therefore allows you to create multiple level tags with the same name on differnet GA's. When these are added to logic code for the ctc it doesn't actually know which one it should be using. This warning is saying that each level tag must have a different name for logic to work.
If it has worked in the past it is only because the same name happened to have the same value. (Matty).
Will have to go through all projects checking name and values.
8:
Darren only working 10 hours per day - whats he do the rest of the day - hahah

So have learnt a lot from this.