Poll - User Upgradable Firmware

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by znelbok, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. znelbok

    znelbok

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    I cant find where to do a poll in this forum so I will just ask the question.

    Who would like to see user upgradable firmware in C-bus products?

    I have been caught a few times with firmware times that does not have the functionality of newer firmware or does not do what I expected due to firmware limitation.

    Do you also think that it is well within the scope of the installer to be capable of doing a firmware upgrade?

    Just interested in opinions (mine have differed from the rest of the user based commumity too many times to take my thoughts as something that may be desirable).

    Mick
     
    znelbok, Sep 24, 2006
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  2. znelbok

    Darren Senior Member

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    It isn't that simple to add in-field upgradeability to all C-Bus products. For example, it is not possible using the current processor used in key input units.

    To add the ability to upgrade firmware in key input units, you would end up adding maybe $5 to $10 to the cost of the final product. I doubt that many people would want to pay the extra.
     
    Darren, Sep 25, 2006
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  3. znelbok

    znelbok

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    and that is what this thread is about - gauging the community response.

    Personally - key inputs are already considerably higher in price over a standard mech that I dont expect $5-10 to be really noticed - my opinion only.
     
    znelbok, Sep 25, 2006
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  4. znelbok

    newsreader

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    Considering the price of C-Bus units then I feel that there is no excuse for not being able to upgrade the firmware of units.

    If C-Bus want a further $5-$10 per unit then I would pay it, not because I feel it is good value but because I don't want to end up with a piece of expensive junk simply because I cannot upgrade the firmware so it will do what is needed.

    If a house system has, say, 40 units then $200 to $400 extra, so cheaper than having to buy a replacement for many of the DIN units although more expensive than key inputs, therefore in all probability for a small system then it is probably cost effective to pay the extra and then know that you're reasonably future proof !

    If you've got a large system in a commercial building then the number of units makes the surcharge a much more significant sum but equally a large commercial install will also probably have more need for layout and function changes over time so probably more need to have to buy replacement units to get the latest functionality in the newest firmware.

    Hope that makes sense !

    As to whether an installer will have the ability to load new firmware then surely that's obvious ? If you have the ability to design/install/programme a C-Bus system then I can't see how it won't be within your ability to load new firmware. For starters you'll have a PC/laptop for programming and we all load new drivers, software patches and firmware upgrades all the time so what's the difficulty with a C-Bus network ?

    I agree with Znelbok that's it's about time that Clipsal started making all their units field upgradeable, or at the absolute very least, that they offer a Service Dept upgrade option at minimal cost.

    Just my two penny's worth.
     
    newsreader, Sep 25, 2006
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  5. znelbok

    Newman

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    Update Method

    Would I be correct in assuming that you'd want to download the firmware updates over C-Bus? An update for the firmware in key input units or DIN units would theoretically take 10 - 20 minutes per unit. Is this acceptable? Would you be happy to return the units to the factory for the firmware upgrade?

    I've never heard of anyone wanting to upgrade the firmware in their DIN unit before however I understand the point about future-proofing.
     
    Newman, Sep 26, 2006
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  6. znelbok

    znelbok

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    I dont think the mechanism is too important - just the functionality (but preferably by the user/installer). I would say that in the situation that you have indicated that C-bus is the only for of data connection we have so it would be a yes.

    I would have asumed that you would take the unit off the running network to perform the upgrade.

    That type of thing would be up to CIS to determine.
     
    znelbok, Sep 26, 2006
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  7. znelbok

    JohnC

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    The user can update the firmware of a DVD writer, motherboard, and many other common items that are infinitely more complicated yet sell for considerably less than a C-Bus switch.

    So, firmware-upgradable C-Bus would get my vote too.

    When CIS adds the extra memory that allows the switches to store a GroupName rather than just a Hex Address, they can also make the firmware flashable at the same time - bring on C-Bus3 :D :D
     
    JohnC, Sep 26, 2006
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  8. znelbok

    Darpa

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    Speaking from an IT standpoint (and personal opinion),

    One of the first things I will do when working on almost any IT-related equipment, is I will flash the BIOS of any motherboard, or the firmware of any other components, to upgrade the features, stability, and ability of those components.

    I do not have any view regarding the cost associated with adding this capability, I will leave that aspect to those of you who are far more knowledgeable than myself, but considering the complexity of a C-Bus install is usually well beyond the ability and knowledge of any average Joe, as well as most "coyboys" out there, I would think that flashing the firmware of C-Bus products by the installer, integrator, or anyone else with the intelligence, experience, and knowledge to do so, would be a very positive step forward with most C-Bus products not currently capable of doing so.

    Of course, I personally would think that this SHOULD be a process which everyone is warned that by undertaking the flashing process, they do so at their own risk, and that the product would not be covered under warranty in the event of a corrupted unit due to an upgrade gone wrong, or done incorrectly.

    Just my two cents worth :)

    Darpa
     
    Darpa, Sep 27, 2006
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  9. znelbok

    Fliposide

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    I would be in favour of upgrading my own firmware.

    I've just found several Reflection Key pads (4) on an older version firmware (1.4.0 and I need 1.6.00). I need to the newer version to make my programming work.
    If I go to the client and explain he needs to buy new kit, he won't be happy (all for the sake of $5 - $10 cheaper per unit, that's tiny a fraction of what they cost!!!) Think bigger picture Clipsal, how do you think we will buy next time. A system that is upgradable or not?


    I vote to upgrade firmware.

    Flip...
     
    Fliposide, Apr 22, 2009
    #9
  10. znelbok

    Ingo

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    I second both options, either field upgradable or send the unit to your local Clipsal office for an upgrade. One thing to maybe consider, keep a small piece of flash Read-Only just for a loader program. If a firmware upgrade goes corrupt then the loader can load minimum code just to get back on the Bus and download new code - nothing else. This will also stop a flood of potential faulty units to be sent to Clipsal.

    As for the cost??? Just think of a new sales strategy "how can we sell more units without making it even more expensive???" When talking Clipsal, value for money isn't the first thing that comes to mind, maybe this is a step in the right direction.

    Ingo
     
    Ingo, Apr 23, 2009
    #10
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