Protection, Is your C-Bus wearing one????

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by industeq, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. industeq

    industeq

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    Just planning out my first system and wondering if the output on a dimmer module or even a relay module is internally thermally protected or fused?
    I have been all over looking but have yet to find a internal electronic wiring diagram on the internals of Clipsal Modules.
    Even a simple trimmed down internal drawing would help but no avail.

    If you have to much load (current) on one channel, what happens?

    How do other installer protect the output? Is it practice to put a 2 amp fuse on a 8 Channel or a 4 p fuse on a 4 channel dimmer output (load) side?


    If the dimmer module supply power (incoming) is from a 15 Amp circuit breaker from the electric panel seems like this would only protect from short circuit protection providing the wire size is rated for 15 Amp.


    Thanks
    Alan Dobbs
     
    industeq, Aug 21, 2009
    #1
  2. industeq

    NickD Moderator

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    The DIN rail dimmers and relays are not protected internally, with the exception of the Universal DIN dimmer (which I don't believe is available in the US), which has overcurrent and over temperature protection inbuilt.

    Depending on the level of overcurrent, the triacs in the dimmers will be destroyed, as things like fuses and circuit breakers don't respond fast enough to protect the semiconductor function. The relays are a bit beefier and will probably survive long enough for the breaker to trip.

    That said, we don't see a lot of units coming back with blown triacs, so they're not *that* fragile. Most that come back with blown triacs come from China and have been abused, for example by people cutting live wires and expecting the circuit breaker to trip!

    This has been discussed a fair bit here in the past... I would be skeptical that a fuse that was rated suitably for the load and cold inrush would respond fast enough to protect the triac in the event of a dead short.

    Also.. not a solution for you at this stage as they're not available in the US, but the new Professional Series ("Infinity") modular dimmers are designed to withstand a short circuit long enough that the breaker will trip.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Aug 21, 2009
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  3. industeq

    razor77

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    What are the symptoms of a unit with damaged triacs?

    What are the symptoms of a unit with damaged triacs? Other than the obvious, the unit not working, do the leds provide any notification?

    Here in the UK we do not have a repair service as available in Australia, presumably extending to all Asia as returns from China were mentioned.

    Surley its possible for an electronics workshop to repair rather than replacing?
     
    razor77, Sep 9, 2009
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  4. industeq

    NickD Moderator

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    The channel will just not work. There is no indication on the LEDs.

    The returns from China I referred to are usually trying to claim warranty. Abuse of the kind described is not covered by warranty.

    Technically it is possible... the phase control part of the circuit is very simple, however the blue "lids" on the DIN rail cases are super-glued on (for regulatory reasons - they come off too easily if not glued), so it's difficult to access the PCB without destroying the enclosure.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Sep 9, 2009
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