Relay needed to control alarm

Hi,

I want to install a CBus relay to control my exisiting alarm system... I want to be able to press "Goodbye" or whatever on a CBUS switch at my frontdoor, and it turn lights off/on, etc... and arm the alarm. The alarm requires a voltage free signal from the CBUS... which is wired up to a zone number on the alarm, and you can configure that zone to "ARM AWAY" when the contact is closed. What specific model CBUS relay do I require?

Any advice is much appreciated - I'm a bit confused at the moment.

Thanks!!

Damien.

 

So by disabling the power to the lighing system and killing the C-bus system the alarm will then assume that the owner is home again.

I think what you are asking is for the C-Bus to send a momentary pulse to zone 15 to say it is armed and a momentary pulse to zone 16 to say it is disarmed. Any VFR C-bus module can do that.

To visually validate the status of the alarm panel you then also bus-couple back to the C-Bus and say - if alarm panel relay is X then operate this light for 30 seconds.

If you assume the alarm is armed without any visual cue then who is to say that C-Bus did anything ? The alarm then also has to send back a message to C-bus saying that it is armed (via an alarm panel relay into a bus-coupler).

Dont forget that you can also expand any alarm panel to arm / disarm wireless.

 

Nooo... basically don't want it that fancy....

Basically I want a CBUS button at my front door saying "Goodbye" which turns off all/most of my CBUS lights, and then arms the security system in AWAY mode. To disarm the alarm, you need to enter the code into the alarm keypad, etc. So CBUS won't know the status of the alarm ever. So yes, I want CBUS to send the alarm a momentary pulse to zone 15 of alarm, which has been programmed as ARMED AWAY... and a momentary pulse to zone 16, which has been programmed as ARMED STAY (so, a "goodnight" button can be used next to my bed)

what model CBUS relay would I need? I'm a bit confused because I don't need a 240 volt relay......

Is my thinking here ridiculous? Is there some better way to do this? I have an Ademco Vista 20 alarm panel. (wireless)

Thanks so much!!

 

You can use any voltage-free relay unit from the C-Bus catalogue to provide the relay contact. I think the 5102RVF is the cheapest relay product available that has a voltage free contact, however it does require an active and neutral for power to operate.

 

I have a similar system on a project but controlled by a colour touch, I have used a standard 12 ch relay L5512RVF to send a pulse to the coil of another relay mounted in the alarm panel this has a 230v coil to make the 12v (or whatever) contact as clipsal reccomend that you do not mix voltages on the outputs of the relay this was very simple and low cost but it might do what you require.

 

So how would I know that the alarm is armed ?

Once disarmed, wouldnt it be nice if the main corridor lights came on ?

 

In my opinion, it'd probably be more practical to do it in reverse...

Going out, set the alarm to "ARMED", which tells C-Bus to go into "away scene" (most lights off)

When arriving home, set alarm to "DISARMED", which triggers C-Bus to turn certain lights on (dependant on time of day, etc).

Just my 2c worth

 

I once had a client who hated keypads. He wanted it all done via the C-bus.

 

Hi jago, looks like you could do with some input from someone with security system experience. I am guessing from your info that you don't have any logic capability at the moment. If you have C-Bus and a half decent security system then I will guess you have a C-Touch or maybe even key inputs that have some scene capability.

Your approach detailed above is the way to go. THE ONLY WAY TO GO. It is pretty simple, have buttons around the place that set scenes which include a 2 or 3 second pulse of a relay channel. If you don't have spare channels available on existing relay units then as Newman suggested go with a 5102RVF. This way you can avoid wiring segregation issues. If you have spare channels of an exising relay unit you can use these but make sure you observe the wiring rules for segregation of LV (240v in this case) and SELV (<60vDC / <42vAC RMS - I think - bit rusty).

As JohnC touched on, if you want to add function you can have an aux relay in the security connected to a Bus Coupler for the purpose of turning off lights etc when the security arms. Throw in another relay for when the security is in alarm and you are on your way to some nice functional integration. Once you start on this path it wont be long before you need some conditional logic (you don't want to bring the lights on in the middle of the day if the alarm goes off - and how about semi random lights around the house at night when no-one is there ) Here we are talking about the PAC. If you get this far drop me a line and I will send you some really nice PAC security code...

 

How do you do this in a scene? I need it for another application, but have not worked it out yet. From what I can ascertain, timers are not available in scenes - and a PAC or touchscreen does not exist on the network wither so logic is out

Mick

 

Once you start talking PAC and custom code I dont see how it is simple.

 

You won't find timers in scenes, you will however be able to pulse a group address on for 2 seconds etc. I moved pretty quickly through the previous post. Took for granted there was at least a B&W ctouch on the job. Scenes in the CT can pulse GA's. You can't pulse objects in scenes in key inputs. You would be pretty limited if you had key inputs only even though there are clunky work arounds with triggering scenes. In all cases I have seen with C-Bus and decent security the job has had at least a B&W ctouch. Fork out the hard earned for a PAC and things really take off

 

Not only is it simple, it can be quite fun

 

When you say fun do mean in your own time and at your own expense ?

 

Wheres your spirit of adventure. Learning is all part of the game and most of the time it does happen in your own time and at your own expense. If you expect to get paid for learning then your in the wrong game. There is a lot of satifaction to be gained in working things out for your self and there no shame in asking for help when needed either.

 

I recall one episode where an alarm expert enjoyed himself for 8 hours, billed for 9 and did 2 hours work. He was not doing it for himself in his own time at all.

Currently I am working on a fibre optic version of C-bus which carries the normal protocol and 5.1 audio and AV signals down the same line at the same time in both directions. I am hardly opposed to your idea of the new.

 

When the PAC first hit the market I spent many, many hours of my own time writing programs suitable for training others. Way before that I can remember taking a Pascal tutorial document away on holidays to read in the afternoons with a beer. I also remember spending a whole weekend on a serial read / write issue for the Integra (EOF).

Oh and by the way I have shared the benefit of those efforts with many others from these forums. Get PM's all the time about copies for people who are looking for some help.

So yes - largely in my own time and at my own expense - Thanks for asking

 

What does an "alarm expert" look like ????

If someone charges a professional hourly rate for their services {$???} they won't get a start let alone get paid if they are not competent. Hmmmmm.

Unfortunately I get lots of work at $??? to fix the mess of others and the clients are wrapped at the end

 

Good one BSS...

 

To be honest ... as I live in Sydney I find that the market is full of nutters. As soon as I say "challenger" all I hear are crickets and owls. The few people I do find are way overpriced only because of the brand.

There is a disease in Sydney called "smart-home price". As soon as people ask for C-bus the average installer goes KA-CHING and bumps the price of the modules 100% over RRP. This has given C-bus some kind of reputation that only the wealthy can afford it.

Nothing could be further from the truth. You can squeeze far more out of C-bus without adding expensive add-ons unless the person can justify the cost or the size of the project.

Most of my clients are part of the whole setup process and for what it's worth, once the lights work, most of them lose interest in the extras. Much like yourself I inherit a lot of abortions. That means the lighting groups are all ganged together and not split into scene groups.

Working on the basis that simpler is better I dont feel obligated to follow the gadget rule if basic alarm and c-bus coding can do it 90% of the time, where the other 10% is not considered to defeat the goal but simply a luxury most people can live without.

As you are well aware, there are only so many mansions to fit c-bus into. Once all those are done it will come back to having basic skills and simple solutions.

When it comes to complications I dont know many clients that can afford or justify the extras given that, as stated, I walk into a mess on any given project and try to make sense of it.

If the plan is to do a small scale domestic project from scratch then every dollar counts. How anyone can afford all the technology when it isnt needed is obviously an artform of selling which I prefer to not associate with.

I hope you continue to "know the stuff better than anyone".