Ricoman\Centorio downlights tripping channel type C MCB

Hi all, really hoping someone can help as this is driving me mad! I just recently changed all my downlights in one area to the Ricoman\Centorio all in one LED downlights - the ones where you can change the colour temperature and dim them via a remote. They were working fine on the relay but I didn't like the idea of them being on there as they aren't leading edge dimmable, so I moved them to a spare relay channel (12 channel standard relay). Now when I try to switch them back on after switching them off, they trip the MCB. Whilst they are on they're fine, they switch on and off via the remote just fine, but switching them off via the wall switch causes it to trip when switching back on again, even after waiting minutes.
The MCB is a Type C - would a type D help/be necessary? There are 8 lamps on this channel, 14w each. I have had 3 similar lights in the garage on a relay for years working fine on the switch and never once tripped. I've checked all the wiring and it all seems fine so I'm at a loss - any advice would be very gratefully received!

 

I assume you meant they worked fine on a Dimmer not a relay.
Are the circuit breakers RCD (safety switch type) if they are, maybe the relay is fed from a different CB to the dimmer if so this would cause the neutrals to be incorrectly connected.

 

What size breakers is being used at it seems strange that units can be controlled from there remote but trip the breaker when the relay is turned on, your presumption of the initial current draw is possible but only if you have really low current breaker installed. Type C breaker will handle 5 to 10 times full load current for a few seconds to allow for start up currents.
Did you do any other changes to the system at the same time, Graham's suggestion is where I would start.
If that doesn't sort it out put the old lights back in, no changes to wiring and see if the same happens.
this would at least point you in the direction of wiring issue or load problem.

 

Apologies, you’re absolutely right, I meant dimmer - been a long day
Not sure if this is what you mean but I had to extend the cables across into the enclosure next to it (as the dimmer is in a different enclosure to the only relay I have) but I took live, neutral and earth all across.
Photo’s attached in case they help!

 

Thanks, yes I did make one other change, I just switched a dimmer and relay channel over (in the same enclosure) in preparation for another room of lights to be switched to the same downlighters later on. Only 5/6 lamps on each of those circuits, and I just switched the live’s on those ones. These both seem to be working fine though.
This is the downlight if it helps!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ricoman-Generation-Centorio-Controlled-Downlight/dp/B08SHSM21T

 

I don’t think it’s of importance but the channel I moved the d/l’s to was a spare channel and breaker that had never been used before. I guess I could switch it with one I know to work to eliminate any possibility of it being a faulty channel and/or breaker?

 

Oh wow C1,

Looking at the photo they may be 1 amp breakers, used to protect to c-bus channels from overcurrent. If they are 1 amp, inrush current could be the issue. It’s likely the dimmer helped smoothed the inrush.

An electrician can current test the circuit to see the current draw and swap out the breaker. I can help if your in the Melbourne area.

 

I wish I was, I’m in the U.K. (though for once we’re having some of your weather). Thanks for the suggestion, father and brother-in-law are both electricians (they don’t do any Cbus work), but I’ll ask them to test the circuit.
Could that explain why they switch on most of the time once they have been left off for a while, but if I switch them back on after about 5 seconds of being off they always trip?

 

It is very unlikely it will be a relay issue as the relay unit is straightforward with only a set of contacts connected to a set of terminals.
What is the current rating on the circuit breakers mounted next to the relays also which CB is tripping.
What is the current rating of all those ones down the bottom.

 

I forgot to take a photo before I left for work but all the breakers are identical, just two are up the top for channels 11 and 12 due to space constraints down below.
The left breaker of the two standalones is tripping, it was already daisy-chained for power, I just wired the relay live into the CB and extended the neutral and earths so they were in the same cabinet as the relay/live wire. I googled the CB specs but it said between 1A and 63A, presumably that’s for different rated breakers in the same range and not this one specifically.
Is there any way to determine what the amperage is if the model number doesn’t identify it?

 

As Diggerz said they are most likely to be 1 amp CB and tripping due to inrush current or may be a faulty CB or a faulty LED light fitting.
Just a note that the Dimmers have a soft start feature which my help to overcome the problem.

 

I reckon that’s probably spot on as i did disconnect the transformers and lamps and gradually connect them up and it was lamp 7 that it started doing it - I changed the transformer and fitting for a new one and it still did it. I’ll get a slightly larger breaker I reckon - thanks all for your help and comments, much appreciated!

 

If I increase the breaker to a 2A should I keep it as a Type C or drop to a Type B?

 

Update: Changed the breaker to a 2A Type C and lights turn on first time after resetting the breaker, but as before the second time of turning on again within 10 seconds it trips again I shouldn’t need to go bigger than 2A should I??

 

Aaand finally solved After figuring out it was the final fitting and swapping it out with two new ones it then only left the cable, which appears to be the cause having just run a temporary new length.
I’ll switch back to the old 1A breaker as well as I don’t think it needs more than a 1A Type C in there.

Thanks all for taking the time to head scratch this one

 

Bloody thing is still tripping
Turned them on and off a good few times earlier and it was all fine, just turned them on via the app (not that that should make any difference) and it tripped again.
Anyone have any ideas?? I’m going change the stupid spring connectors for wagos in case that’s what it is, but I doubt it as when they’re on they’re rock solid, no flickering or tripping..

 

Interesting what you said at the end there - should I have left this circuit on a dimmer instead of switching it to a relay? I assumed that because these particular lights don’t dim when Cbus is dimmed, that the soft start and potential dimming by users could damage them?

 

I have seen where a non dimmable LED lights have been connected to a dimmer and the light fitting or dimmer channel fail although the specs for those fittings say they are dimmable I think they are dimmable via there remote or the wall switch.
I think one of the light fittings is faulty maybe you need to have all lights connected and replace one fitting at a time.
Good luck.

 

Yes that’s right Graham, they were working fine on the dimmer but as they are dimmable via remote I wasn’t comfortable with what the dimmer might be doing to them so moved them to the relay.
Subsequent fiddlings have led to it bring the number of fittings. If I remove one (any one) they work fine, which is confusing as you would think 7 working on a 1A breaker would mean 8 would work on a 2A? Doesn’t seem to be the case though! Have ordered a 6A breaker but will do some insulation resistance testing (transformers and lamps removed) before fitting that as that seems like massive overkill to me.