Rollershutter/Awning Window

Hey guys

I wanted to get your opinion on something I was thinking of doing.

I have rollershutters that will be controlled from a Cbus Rollershutter relay. I also have a Ness DX16 alarm system with cbus board.

What I want to do is when I leave i double tap my proxy sensor to arm the alarm and the house goes into shut down mode (eg all lights off and shutters down).

The issue I have is I have one of those windows that swings out at the bottom so if the shutter comes down on the window while its open bad things happen. (I know I tried it briefly to see what the roller shutter would do).

What I was thinking of doing is installing a magnet reed sensor on the windows to detect when they are open to far (they can be open a bit). The reed sensors would be zones on the ness alarm system.

When I arm the alarm the alarm starts the close down scene (I have a logic controller) which will shut the shutters and switch off the lights. However, if the window is open the shutter aborts shutting.

Is this possible ? I believe it is from what I understand with the ness cbus bridge.

 

I had the same issue with 20 electric blinds on sliding windows in a very windy environment. Shutting the blinds with a window open was not a good idea. I have a Ness M1 system and installed wireless reeds on all the windows and doors then wrote some logic to interlock them. It works fine but can get quite complex if you want to support all the options of the shutter (i.e. one, two or three button toggle, or proportional control). The problem is you can't tell what the shutter is doing by looking at its group address (a rather serious design flaw to me). If you are content with just open and close controls (i.e. no toggle) you can just wait till you see the group address go to close, check the window reed, and then set the group address to open again.

Life would have been a lot simpler if the shutter relay supported output unit logic.

 

Whats the one two and three button toggle ?

I am not fussed at all about programming. Thats my field.

 

Exactly why I asked for this many years ago

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6166

 

Any way of using a reed switch in series with the blinds power circuit? Ie magnet on window, N/C reed on frame, wired between the blind relay and roller shutter? Thus stopping shutter from working unless window is closed..

Cheers..

 

Rooster wrote:


I got snookered today again. Customer has Roller blinds and windows that open outwards the windows have reed switches connected to Home safe.
I was going to disable the blinds if the windows are open. The problem is I cannot get the state of the windows via homesafe if the alarm is not armed.



I have the Ness DX16 (which is related to homesafe I believe)
I was under the impression you can get the state of the reed switch on the cbus network ? Have I missed something ?

 

This issue has been discussed on a number of occasions. In general alarm panels do not send zone status messages over cbus when disarmed as the Cbus security protocol specifically recommends not to for fear of flooding the cbus network. However, the DX16 CBus interface allows you to send up 16 cbus control messages when different events occur. One of the options is listed as "Zone 1-16 unsealed irrespective of panel armed or disarmed". I can't remember ever using this so I'm not sure if it also sends out corresponding sealed messages (not sure how useful it would be if it didn't as once the group was set it would never be reset). You could give it a go though. See page 6 of the DX16 cbus supplement.

This is why I always recommend the M1 over the DX16 when used in conjunction with a cbus install.

As for the toggle options, the shutter relay can be controlled by either one, two or 3 button setups. With one button it cycles around close/stop/open/stop. With 2 buttons, one button cycles between open/stop and the other close/stop, and with 3 buttons you have and open, stop and close button. This is implemented in the shutter relay using specific GA values. 2% is stop, 98% is open/stop/close/stop, 1% is close/stop and 99% open/stop. 0% and 100% are close and open as you would expect. Any other value sets the shutter (approximately) to the specified position if "level translation mode" is enabled.

The problem with these options is:
a) You can't tell where the blind is by looking at the GA so it can't be shown on a touch screen etc.
b) As the toggle is done in the blind and not the switch, if you try and use one switch to control multiple blinds they rapidly get out of sync.

I ended up duplicating most of the shutter firmware in logic and just sending absolution position commands to the blind. This way the blind GA always tells you its real position. Also you can then do the blind syncronising in logic and add interlocking. If you enjoy programming its a good challenge

 

To avoid this, i usually use an on/off toggle command then set a long press at 98%. That way every group that is assigned to that button is always given a 0% or 100% all the same. Then to stop it, you hold the button down.

 

Interestingly I do the same thing but the other way around. i.e. long press to toggle up/down and short press to stop. I found it stops visitors unwittingly triggering the blinds, plus you can stop them more precisely.

 

have a look here

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11697

I hit this problem too. Ness do have a solution but Clipsal are selling the old cbus interface.

You are better off buying a ness alarm with the newer cbus interface. it does what you require.

I have asked if Clipsal are thinking of updating there offering to the latest Ness technology but so far have not had an answer.

Charles

 

I like your thinking, to reduce unwanted presses. But i guess it's up to the client whether they want to be doing a short or long press every time they want to move the blinds.