Security Application D0

Can you confirm that the Application log in Toolkit will not show traffic on Application 208 D0(HEX)
I'm using Comfort alarm with Cbus and am controling some bits of the alarm from CTouch
But if I enter the same commands into HomeGate/Shedule Plus nothing happens
Can someone confirm this is OK
thanks
Mike

 

I am fairly sure that the ToolKit application log doesn't show Security Messages. Use the C-Bus Diagnostic Software to observe Security Messages (and all others).

You haven't provided enough information to comment on this.

 

Hi Darren
Example

Application 208
Group address 162
Level 1
(Choice for level is 1,2 or 3)

In Ctouch this will arm the system when run from the hardware.
Exactly the same put into Shedule Plus or run from the PICED software whilst the software is connected to C-Bus produces Nothing
If I send from C-Bus Diagnostics 1.4 It works!!

Below is the Comfort instructions for this item (using Version 2 software of course:

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I hope this helps explain the problem
There are other examples
Mike

 

OK, now I understand what you are doing. Currently C-Touch, PAC, Colour C-Touch, PICED, HomeGate and Schedule Plus do not provide in-built support for the Security Application. This will be coming some time in the near future (don't ask when ).

What you have done is what is referred to here as a "dodgy hack". Whilst it may work, and is currently the only way of doing this, it is not a particularly nice way of doing it. You can only do this hack in C-Touch, not in HomeGate or Schedule Plus.

 

Hi Darren

Could you expand a bit more on this?
Are you saying Homgate and the like can't see all 255 applications?
or are special applications like the security (208) locked out of Homegate??

I've read the pdf on the different applications and what is reserved, but there was no clue in there to "Dodgy Hacks"
I just turned
a level (one of 255)
in a group (one of 255)
in an application (one of 255)
to 1
Whats dodgy about that?
If Ctouch can do it why cant Homegate?

I'm missing something in my understading of the system
Please explain.
thanks
Mike

 

Hi Mike,

The reason we call this a "dodgy hack" is because it is programming by coincidence. You are issuing a "Lighting Application" command on the "Security Application" this is what is dodgy. It is a coincidence that this lighting command just happens to correspond to the same format as a command in security so something happens. This is the hack part.

So yes what you are doing works, but it is not good practise as it violates the purpose of "applications". However, currently you have no choice until we add native "Security Application" support to products other than CBTI.

 

Thanks Richo and Darren

I think I'm beginning to make sence of the my problem
Different applications within Cbus can have different formats depending on the hardware requirements
Hence Richo's reply to my question http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1338

because at present we are used to using Lighting doesnt mean that all applications will use that format or respond correctly to it
And hence why Triggers offer different options when programming

Thanks for the info
Mike

 

Yes, that's correct. Each application can use very different formats so many are not compatible. In a lot of cases we have made the formats the same as the ones for Lighting to make the firmware easier to maintain. This also has the side benefit of allowing "dodgy hacks" in lighting compatible units to use these other applications.

 

Can the hack be done in a PAC?

 

How about the new Dual Applications on Input Units (in Toolkit 1.3 and newer),will this support the Security Application?

 

Dual Application key units do not have native support for the Security Application. We get enough complaints that our key units have too many features and are consequently too hard to program as it is.

A Dual App key unit could be used to issue some Security Application messages as Security Application messages are lighting application compatible in their format. Hence the "dodgy hack" could be applied here too. Just be prepared to have to do some odd-ball programming in the key units to get it working nicely because even though the message format is compatible, the way the messages are actually used is different.