Somfey Blinds into C-Bus

No must say haven't heard of that one.
I have found controlling the blinds this way directly is the most reliable and easist way, it gives you total control.

If you are controlling via 2 switches EG up and down and you have a C-Touch it pays to put some logic in it via scenes to software interlock as well, this will enable you to press the up switch and blinds go up and without pressing the switch again to stop the blind being able to press the down switch which will stop the blind from going up and then go down and vise versa.
You can also setup scenes to group blinds and stop buttons.
If you have a Minder it is easier to do the logic in it.

Regards,
Ross

 

I have done a couple houses using Sofmy. They have a product called busline which is a transmitter and acts like there basic remote (up, down, stop). The blinds have a receiver built into the tube.
The busline requires 3 wires (up, down and common).
You can connect a normal switch to it. To interface to cbus I allocate 1 relay channel to up, 1 relay channel to down and joined them to gether to get my common.
Programmed 2 switches as timers (up and down). To stop the blinds you push both of them at the same time.
The blind installer can programme intermediate stops and by pushing the stops twice in a row will cause it to go to this intermediate stop.
The advantage is you are not directly controlling the motors, no logic required and you can usually put theses transmitters next to the switch board.
The only problem I found was that if you send via a scene say a up command to a group of blinds it does not work as the transmitter signals cancel each other out as I can not get delays between commands. To overcome this I suggest you put in extra transmitter and a group of blinds can be linked to this transmitter or use minder.

 

The way that I controlled these blinds is with changeover relays.

I then used a spare c-bus relay that fed the common of the changeover relay. When you press up, it closes the relay feeding the common of the changeover relay and changes the state of the changeover relay for up (depending on how you have wired it).

Down is just the reverse. when the blind hits its limit, it stops! (won't harm the blind unit)

To stop the blind half-way, just open the relay that feeds the common of the changeover relay.

To do this you will need a switch capable of scenes or use a touchscreen, because you have to switch two groups for a UP or DOWN command.

 

curtain motor

Hi Experts,
Is there anyone did a key switch control to curtain motor (open; close; stop)??
i'm using NEO 8key to control curtain motor. i reserved only 2 keys for it (press and hold to open and close). i going to install day curtain and night curtain. is it posible for me to control it by using 1 key to control (open; close) or (open; close; stop) for single motor?? what type of curtain motor recomended? i tested somfy and yokota m30.

Regards

Jack

 

Jacksim

If you have a Minder you can control up,down & stop with the one key,
other wise you require 2 keys for up/stop and down/stop.

As for Motors I have used Somfy for many years with no problems and strongly recommend them.

Regards,
Rossco

 

Somfy

Expert,
Do you have any website(link) for us to search more model spec for somfy curtain motor? because i cant get the info from www.somfy.com..Thanks!

I dont have Minder. i'm using 8k.

Regards

Jack

 

Finally on track...

After much communication with clients, and reading of this thread (thanks to everyone for their input and to Doug for raising the question at just the right time!) I finally have my plan in place.

I had designed the control arrangement based on direct 240v control to the motors, using changeover relays for interlocking. This is the way Doug went (and that's where I got the info), with great success.

Then, just as I was happy with the design, I was informed that Somfy RF control will be installed (Telis 1ch RTS sending signals to RTS2 motor). By adding a Somfy RTS Busline Transmitter to each blind (think of it as similar to a C-Bus Coupler), I can now use any dry contact closure for up, down and stop functions, and the customer can still use their remote control.

This means no changeover relays for interlocking, as the Somfy gear will prevent any mishaps. Using ordinary voltage free relay contacts, only a momentary closure is required to activate the blind in either direction, and operating both Up and Down contacts simultaneously will stop the blind. I don't have to worry about setting up the limits or anything, so I've got it pretty easy really.

I spoke to Somfy this morning about both methods of control (direct 240v control with interlocking OR interfacing to Busline Transmitter with regular relay contacts) and both got the verbal stamp of approval from them.

If I have any interesting dramas or developments I'll post them. But at this stage, I'll touch wood and say... what can possibly go wrong?

 

Blockout Shutters

Has anyone interfaced 'Blockout' brand roller security shutters with C-Bus? Have you had any issues?

From what I have read it looks as though they are basically the same setup as the Somfy blinds. I plan to go the changeover relay way with normal relay channel feeding the common.

I have a job with 48 of them so any tips before I starting installing would be appreciated.

Cheers
Matt

 

C-Bus & Blinds Howto Guide

Hi All,

See attached Howto Guide (2 docs) in pdf, c-bus tag (version 2) and c-touch xml in zip format on how I think blinds could be controlled in C-Bus.

 

Somfy pdfs

See
http://www.somfysystems.com/www/ADDITION/WEB.INSTRUCTIONS/pdf/

Google found it.

 

Blinds Howto-Part 3 of series

Hi All,

For Blind control I have tested using a standard C-Bus 4 key input unit (without scene triggering in C-Touch for those who read the earlier docs) using the Advanced key functions to come up with this attached pdf and C-Bus database. Any comments??

 

Too late?

That thread is quite old, but just some comments here (we are one of the OEM manufacturers for motors)

Absolutely essential for controlling blinds, shutters, curtains, etc:
(Partly already mentioned):
- Interlocking in open and close direction (Best by electrical interlocking)
- No parallel connection of most motors
- SWITCH-OVER DELAY between open and close of min. 0.5 seconds!

All of which has been taken care if you follow the programming instructions of "Guru" just above.

If the programming sounds to complicated, there is also an easy way out:
(And if you need to control motors in groups also cheaper)
We have controllers for 165 - 240 dollars wholesale (one is even DIN rail mounted and you can connect 2 motors, or with built in radio receiver, etc)
With that controller in between all you need to set your C-bus switch function to is "bell press" and you have all these features plus latching, stopping, inching function as well as power off to the blinds after 3 minutes (just in case there is something wrong with the limit switches)
No need for any Minder or changeover relay (cost saving!) for proper motor integration.
What is added in cost of Hardware, is easily made up by easy programming, clear wiring and almost impossible for someone else to mess up the correct programming for the motors
Because who can guarantee the correct programming is maintained down the track if the client wants to change or add switches or add some sun, wind or timer automation?

The controller works for all major motor manufactures in the world (elero, Somfy, Simu, Becker, Jolly etc) without effecting their warranty.
(And no, Somfy doesn't make the blinds, they are the motor supplier)

Hope this still helps someone out there

Attached:
"Comprehensive BMCS requirements.pdf"
a more detailed in depth explanation of what is required for proper BMCS integration as well as some issues associated with it

"C-bus to elero controller page 1.pdf"
Overview of available controllers as well as suggestions how to setup the C-bus if these controllers are used

"C-bus to elero controller page 2.pdf"
Showing connection details to motor and controllers

 

A question I have about this a application groups.

Assume I am using a c-bus key input to open and close curtains.

If I put the relays for the curtains in a different application group to that used by lighting, does this mean that I cant mix lights and curtains on the one key input. And if I want to achieve this I need to put curtain control in the lighting app group.

If this is the case, it would be nice to be able to partition a key input so that different applications can be accessed from one plate (similarily partitioning of a relay may have some advantages - but I could be wrong)

Mick

 

Mick,

The answer is dependent on whether its a Neo/Saturn/Reflection key or an older unit..

 

Mick,

This thread raises a few possibilities that you might consider.

 

Thanks Duncan, I read that thread first and wondered if my question had prompted its posting. Just got to understand what you said now.

I was thinking about the older 2000 series keypads, but from what I read it appears that I cant unless I use the neo based ones.

Mick

 

Somfy Motors to Building Management System

Hope this answers everyones questions

Somfy Motors to Building Management System

 

What happened to Elero? They still represented here in Australia?

 

elero in Australia still in business

Yes, elero is still in business with new management and still support from head office in Germany.
Also see these links:
http://www.elero.com/en;contact;international;WerkID:125;View:2.htm

http://www.elero.com/en;information;for-stockist;d:2354.htm

Hope this helps.
I am trying to look into the forum every now and than, but for urgent questions you're welcome to send a private message as well.

 

Quite good, but for page 1 (for image number 1 and 2):
You will still need a minimum delay time between up and down of 0.5 seconds, otherwise you still will burn the motors out over time, it just will take longer.