Switch controls group on remote network ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KevinH, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. KevinH

    KevinH

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    Am I right in that it is not possible to configure a switch (on any variety of key input) to control a group on a remote network using network routing ? The only work around being via sharing the application (and therefore groups) between adjacent networks, or perhaps via scene triggers ?

    This seems quite a limitation in largish networks where you have several hundred groups in use. It seems once you have more than your 254 groups you are forced to have some non shared networks and these now can't be intermediate routes between a keyinput and controlled group. Maybe I should explore scene triggers (with just one member) more....

    K
     
    KevinH, Jul 11, 2006
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  2. KevinH

    ashleigh Moderator

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    You can set a network bridge up to forward the traffic (groups) from one network to an adjacent network.

    You can also set the bridge up to send the messages to another network further away.

    You can also turn both of these on at the same time. This will allow the groups in one network to be reflected into up to 2 other networks.

    If you run out of groups this becomes more limiting, but careful design usually avoids such hassles.

    Alternatively, as you suggest, use the bridges to route the scene trigger commands (but not the lighting application commands), and have each network with distinct groups in it. Each network needs separate storage of the scens in that network, which is no big deal.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 11, 2006
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  3. KevinH

    KevinH

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    So if bridging the lighting application can I have 3 networks bridged A>B>C and share the lighting groups across A and C but have different independent groups on B then ? (A and C are not adjacent). Otherwise it appears all my groups on all my networks that are in the routing path need to be shared.

    Also.. Q.. if I don't have a group maintained on C-Bus wired, eg on a key input or dimmer unit but I do have the group on Wireless should I be able to control the group from the wired side via a PCI by just turning ON and OFF the group on the wired network (as it is application bridged) or do I have to add full routing information ? I'm thinking the latter as it's not working ;-)

    <edit> actually it appears it doesn't work even if I have the group present on the wired network in a keyinput unit - the keyinput control works but serial commands don't so I assume I should route them accordingly. If the group is present in an output unit on teh wired side then it does work but uses a channel.

    K
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
    KevinH, Jul 11, 2006
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  4. KevinH

    PSC

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    PSC, Jul 11, 2006
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  5. KevinH

    Darpa

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    Peter, dude, do you EVER sleep? :p
     
    Darpa, Jul 11, 2006
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  6. KevinH

    PSC

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    Yeah, in-between forum posts :p

    Anyway Darpa, you can't talk... You're just as bad.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
    PSC, Jul 11, 2006
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  7. KevinH

    PSC

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    KevinH,

    I should have also mentioned after downloading the document it would be a good idea to read it as-well ;)
     
    PSC, Jul 11, 2006
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  8. KevinH

    ashleigh Moderator

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    A: Yes. Use the option when setting up the bridge to "Send to other remote network". The messages will go THROUGH your network B without doing anything to the units attached to network B, appear in network C and do their magic stuff.

    A: Wired and wireless behave in exactly the same ways, so if you have a gateway and groups present on both sides, you can tick the option "send to adjacent network" and things you do in the wired side will be sent to the wireless side (or vice versa) - so the groups will be equivalent.

    But when you send commands via a PCI or serial interface, they already have network routing in them (its transparently added in the PCI) so they will NOT be passed throughthe bridge or gateway. UNLESS you select the "Local SAL" option in the PCI, in which case they will get routed through. This option is not something you cansetin Toolkit - if using a PCI it is described in the cbus enabled doco, and the Cbus Serial Interface Users Guide.

    Its nothing to do with the group being in an output unit. See the above description of Local_SAL mode.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 12, 2006
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  9. KevinH

    KevinH

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    That's actually pretty useful to know - great :)



    Actually I have "Local Sal" enabled , but I avoided mentioning that here - I did this (as recommended in the enabled docs) to make the PCI appear identical to a key input... maybe I should take this over to the enabled forum.... K
     
    KevinH, Jul 12, 2006
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  10. KevinH

    KevinH

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    Ahh - follwed your first advice and wasn't any the wiser - on the case after this follow on post now ... thanks ;)
     
    KevinH, Jul 12, 2006
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  11. KevinH

    KevinH

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    Peter - I've now downloaded and also read the earlier C-Bus Network document your referred to - and it's most interesting - and sometimes a little concerning as things aren't as staright forward as I'd assumed. There are still a couple of things I'm re-reading as it seemed inconsistent but could be me. Essential reading for anyone using bridged networks BTW .

    Anyway aside from that and going back to the very first question of this thread...

    "Am I right in that it is not possible to configure a switch (on any variety of key input) to control a group on a remote network using network routing ? "

    bottom of page 8 section 4.2 says

    "Key Input Units are not capable of generating messages routed to other Networks..."

    which I think is correct However in the very same document top of page 19 section 9.1.4. Q3 it sets a 'test your understanding' question ..

    "Can a Key Input Unit send a message to a Remote Network ? "

    .. and the given answer sect 9.2.4.3 is ..... "Yes"

    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    (unless that's a trick Q and it get's the message there via application connect - but that's a bridge function)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2006
    KevinH, Jul 13, 2006
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  12. KevinH

    ashleigh Moderator

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    The answer is both right and wrong. Key units cannot directly send into a remote network, but a bridge does permit that if its desired.

    The possibility of key units sending directly into remote networks raises its head every now and again (especially from me when I was a new chap). There are very good reasons for not permitting this and placing the functionality into a bridge.

    If anything the question might be better asked as "What additional function, filtering, or routing might a bridge perform to better satisfy a customer need?".

    So far, the function and performance of the bridge is adequate.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 14, 2006
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