Time delays without PAC

In a bathroom I have:

- 3 Halogen LV
- 9 LED pinlights (all on one circuit)
- extractor fan

Now I have a plug in timer module for the fan but Id rather use the CBus if at all possible.

What I want to do is the following:

Switch on lights turns on halogen and LED, halogens are dimmable so on dimmer, LEDs are on the relay
After 2 mins of lights on, the fan switches on via a second relay channel
When lights are turned off and the fan is running, it runs on for say 5 mins

Now I can get the lights to work and the timer on the fan, what I cant get to operate is the dimmer as well.

I am using a Neo 5 button DLT for switching.

Configuration at present is:

Button 1 - Bathroom - Turns on all lights and is a memory dimmer
Button 2 - LEDs - Allows LEDs to be controlled on their own, this is also the timer trigger for the fan
Button 3 - Fan - Allows override of Fan for either on or off

I was kind of hoping that having the LED group turn on via the overall bathroom group would trigger the timer but it seems that only happens when the button is pressed, there is no logical association.

I know I can just sling in the timer module for run on but it wont do delay start.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Simon

 

Are you using all the buttons? It maybe possible we use an extra 'Block' but you will lose a key; so you'll have 7 working keys instead of 8.

 

Not using all the blocks, would prefer not to lose a key but if I have to then its not that big a deal, might even be enough to convince client to have a PAC or B&W touch.

I have had it set up with each of the items on their own key. Doing this I can get the timer to work but when I use the logic to switch all items on, it does not trigger the key press events, which is a bit annoying.

If there is some way of getting the key press events to trigger without having the key pressed then I have no idea what it is.

Cheers

Simon

 

The only way I can think of a time delay is to ramp on a group and set the on thresh hold higher than 1%.

eg ramp on over 12sec, with the on threshold set to 99% causes a 12s delay. Set the threshold to 50% and you get a 6sec delay. You can use this method for staggering lights.

How you get that to work in with what you are trying to achieve I don't know.

Mick

 

so there's no other form of a simple logic engine? not even a b&w Ctouch?

 

Theres no logic engine of any kind. I think I am going to give them very basic functionality and get them to buy a B&W touch with logic when it becomes available here.

I am in the middle of converting all the upstairs lighting to CBus control and they will be having wireless downstairs and to the pool house. Once they get the hang of how useful it will be I am certain they will have one.

There just doesnt seem to be a way to do this job with the kit available.

Maybe its something Clipsal could think about, there is a restrike delay available for power reset, it should, in theory at least, be possible to alter that code in the firmware to allow it to be used a startup delay during normal running. Then the timer functionality could take care of the power off delay, all that would be needed then would be a logical link to allow triggering of short key presses from the logical links.

Course this is all a wish list and highly unlikely to happen

Cheers

Simon

 

One way to do it:

Adding a bus coupler to the system would allow you a cheaper means to achieve this, if you have a spare voltage-free relay contact available.

You can configure the relay channel used for controlling the fan so that it is controlled with two groups, say fan1 and fan2 with AND logic selected.

Set a spare relay channel to turn on when either halogen or led lamp is on, this time with OR logic. Connect the spare relay to two inputs of the bus coupler. Then configure the first input of the bus coupler as a 'delay on' timer (offkey/idle/start/idle), with timer delay set to 2 minutes, expiry command 'recall', and with 100% stored in the appropriate memory. Set this bus coupler input to turn on the fan1 group.

For the turn-off delay, define the second bus coupler input key functions as (onkey/start/idle/start), with timer delay of 5 minutes and expiry command 'offkey', so that the second timer starts when the key is released. Now the second key can be used to control fan2.

Operation:

turning on either light will close the contacts of the spare relay. Fan2 will turn on immediately, but fan1 will turn on only after a delay of 2 minutes, so the fan, which required both fan1 and fan2 to be on to run will also have a turn-on delay. when the lights are all off, the spare relay contacts will open, and the second key timer will start. Fan1 group will still be ON, and fan2 will turn OFF after the second delay so the fan run-on will work.

If the lights are turned on while the fan is running, group fan1 will be turned off, so again the fan will be held off for the start delay. If the lights are turned off before the start delay times out, the fan will never start

there are probably other ways to do this that are more elegant, but I couldn't resist trying.

Please note: I haven't tried this but it should be possible.

 

Orrrrr

You could just bite the bullet - install a PAC achieve what you are after in 30 seconds then set about harnessing the power of the PAC to customise a thousand other little nice touches for your client

 

What Lucky555 lacks in knowledge and experience, he sometimes makes up for in common sense...

 

What to you mean by lack of "knowledge and experience" ?
I spelt PAC correctly did I not ?
Anyway - common sense can take me a long way whilst I play catch up

 

To be honest, this would be my first choice, my second would be to fit a B&W MKII with logic and give them some really neato toys. Its been a bit of a fight to get the system in at all so im trying to give as much with as little cost as possible, its one of those clients were its worth the effort.

I am converting all the lighting upstairs to wired CBus. The downstairs will be all wireless as will connection to the pool house. Has to be done this way as access downstairs is impossible as the interior is complete and the first floor has wood/tile throughout.

It will be a good demo site though as it shows integration of wired and wireless in a retrofit to an existing property and new extension build.

The client is a builder and was not too keen on the system at first, thought it was just a pointless gadget, but now I have most of the upstairs done he is more impressed. We are doing a new build too which is Clipsal for everything, lighting, audio and heating control. Im sure once he sees what can be done he will go for the screen.

Cheers

Simon

 

well done, glhf

 

Just give the PAC for free and save yourself the pain and extra time. Remember whats your time worth compared to the PAC.

just my 2c