Triggering scenes using security system

Hi to everybody, In an Installation at the moment a client has a security system installed already which is not C-Bus compatibe as such, It does have a contactor output though, Can I trigger 2 scenes in my Touchscreen (Welcome home and Goodbye and/or holiday mode using this security system and what components will I need. Excuse my ignorance still relitivley new to this, any help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Gavin...

 

Hi Gavin,

With regard to the programming of your touchscreen, I will have to leave that to one of the other memebers with more knowledge to answer.

Now, when you say the existing security system has a contactor/relay, do you mean that it is an output, that says when the system is armed/disarmed, or that it is an input to tell the system to arm/disarm?

As far as the C-Bus components you will need, if the contactor/relay you're talking about is an output of sorts, you will need to use a General Input Unit. (Website HERE)

With this, you would be able to monitor the output of the existing security system, and as far as the hardware sensing abilities are concerned, you are really only limited to the functions of the security system in this regard.

If what you have on the security system is an input, then any normal C-Bus changover relay will do the job, such as the L5504RVFCP. (Website HERE)

Depending on the existing security systems capabilities, inputs, and outputs, you should be able to trigger scenes from it with the above units and a touchscreen, and if the alarm has a remote "key" input for arming and disarming, you should be able to arm and disarm the system via C-Bus as well if you wish.

I'll leave the software explanations to the other guys on here.


Best of luck,

Darpa

 

The simple answer is all you need is a 5104BCL (Bus Coupler). This little unit is designed specificially for this sort of use. The unit is small enough to be installed inside the security panel.

Wire the relay output of the security to a channel (4 of) on the BCL. It will be easiest the program the channel of the BCL with a lighting Group Address say with a tag "SecurityStatus", leave the key functions as bell press. This will allow a single relay from the security to turn the group on when the secruity it armed and off when the security is disarmed. Use this group address to trigger your two scenes. Group address 'ON' - 100% - 255 trigger "Goodbye Scene". Group address 'OFF' - 0% - 0 trigger scene "Welcome Home".

Now I said that was the easy answer. In the real world you will find out pretty quickly that some conditional logic is needed in the mix here. eg You go out in the morning and arm the alarm system. No probs so far, however you come home at lunch time and guess what, disarm the alarm system and you get the "Welcome Home" scene in the middle of the day. What you need is conditional logic - if(once) SecurityStatus is off and time is greater than sunset (not actual programming syntax - a pulsed condition is actually needed) then trigger scene "Welcome Home".

If you have logic available then with the basic set up mentioned above you can achieve very handy functions like: if security stays armed past sunset (nobody is home and it is dark) then at given times throughout the evening plus a random value then turn a light on near a window for a random amount of time between 10 and 30 minutes. You have to be careful to pick lights and times throughout the evening that coincide with nomal movements. Eg living area lights in the first half of the evening and bedroom light in the second half of the evening. Don't just randomly turn lights on and off. A little bit of thought and semi random is the way to go.

I have this working at my place and it works a treat.

I have previously put projects into the Logic examples section of the forum that cover the random light function around the security scenario.

You mentioned a touchscreen. If it is colour then logic is built in. If it is B&W then you will need to purchase a PAC. A security system with some relay outputs, a BCL, B&W touch screen and a PAC is all you need to have really useful and powerful automation for an underlying C-Bus install.

Drop a line if you want the logic code.

 

So Phil you found the bus coupler a better way to go than to go for one of the embedded CBUS panels mentioned in the other thread?

I suppose in most cases all the CBUS environment needs to be told is whether the alarm panel on or is it off....

Thanks...

 

brj,

I went down the line of Bus Coupler in this thread due to Gavin's original post

There are many good quality security panels out there and only a few are C-Bus Enabled. There is however, a steady flow of security manufacturers starting on the path of the C-Bus Enabled program.

In my own home I have a Tecom Challenger - I am not a big fan of Challenger or Concept in domestic applications as the human interface - 'keypad' is not as user friendly as a good quality domestic panel with rubberised back lit buttons and LED or LCD icon keypad. The benefit here is instant indication of what is going on in an area without having to access menu functions. I have a Challenger in my home due to being a licensed Security Consultant in NSW for the last 12 years and needing a working system to trial configurations etc and I could not justify having two types of system, plus the fact I have more than 30 inputs. In some cases large domestic installations have to end up on a commercial panel like a Challenger or a Concept. Once you get past 16 zones (24) max it is not practical to try to have LED / LCD icon status indication.

To answer your questions I think a good quality C-Bus Enabled panel is the way to go if you have the choice. I have recently commissioned a couple of heavily configured Clipsal Homesafe/NESS D16X C-Bus enabled panels with several C-Bus messages being sent on the bus from the panel. They are nice, tidy and strong solutions. Tied it all together with a PAC.

Security on / off is the one of the main functional ties we always look for. You can program a lot of premises automation around this one state. Obviously system in alarm is the next state we are interested then peripherals like zones/inputs unsealed etc.

 

Exact method of CBUS interconnect?

Phil on the basis of the panel you're recommending (the NESS unit) does this actually take CBUS directly onto it's motherboard or do you need to do some sort of serial interfacing and if so what is the best CBUS model to pair against this?

If it's on the motherboard - then great nice and simple - but it seems some of the other discussions out there rely on serial to do the comms back and forwards.

Many thanks!

 

Other thought...

Phil one other thought too revolves around using the alarm panels IR sensors to trigger CBUS events.

What I mean is could you use (in a crude way?) an IR sensor when the alarm is say not armed to trigger individual lights to come on etc? It may give you more options when you have a location that isn't serviced directly by a CBUS native motion sensor...would that work and any thoughts on drawbacks/limitations?

Could the logic be changed so say lights were only trigged on when the alarm wasn't activated so the behaviour could be different if the alarm was actually on?

I'm curious in this panel does every single event in the alarm network get transmitted onto the CBUS network as well? Or do you need to configure which events get pushed across? Thanks....

 

Hi brj,
I'm currently going through this process trying to integrate my paradox digiplex DGP-848 into the Cbus network. The alarm guys spent half a day yesterday trying to get the digiplex talking to the Cbus network. The alarm chap thinks it may be a printer module fault (its the module that is connected to the Cbus PCI), or it may be a firmware problem, either on the printer module or a incompatibility between the printer module firmware version and the Cbus PCI firmware version. However he has integrated the digiplex and Cbus successfully before.

The programming software that the alarm chap was using to programm the alarm panel allowed him to select any number of events - that would then trigger the GA in CBus. That is he could for example if the alarm was armed / disarmed send a activation signal to Cbus to tell Cbus to turn a group address on / off either instantaneously, or ramp it etc. The list of events that he could use to trigger the Cbus was extensive - zone opened/closed, alarm armed by user/master, fault conditions, - I cant recall anymore, but there were many others. So I was planning to also use some of the alarms motion detectors to trigger lighting events - but will have to reserve judgement until I see it actually set up and commissioned. I guess thats why the guys who deal with this stuff daily recommend only a few alarm panels like the NESS and the Concept etc, but hopefully there will be others as the alarm manufacturers become involved with the CBus Enabled Program.

If anyones interested, I will post to let you know if I have success with the Digiplex DGP-848.

Dak