Wall Lights Not Working

Hi Folks,

I've just moved home and it came with a C-Bus lighting system. I've never seen/used anything like this before, so I'm glad I found these forums!

The lighting system (and 5A sockets) in every room is controlled by C-Bus (but we don't have anything other than 5 x 5508D1A 8-channel dimmer units). All rooms either have 2 or 4 way switches, depending on size.

The lights work in every room except for a pair of wall lights in the living room. There is a button on the 4-way switch that lights up, but doesn't seem to control anything - so I assume it must be this that controls the wall lights.

I've taken the light fittings off the wall and checked the wiring connections and bulbs and that seems fine, so I guess that's not the problem.

What can I do to diagnose the problem and try to get the lights working again?

Any help would be most appreciated,
Ian

 

Two options.

Call someone who knows C-Bus and has the tool and experience to do it for you

or

Get a copy of toolkit, do a bit of reading and download the network configuration to your laptop (with toolkit). You will then discover what each switch is doing or not doing and can change to suit.

You will need to determine if you have a PC interface somewhere on the C-Bus network. This can be a PCI (RS232 serial) USB PCI (USB obviously) or a CNI (Ethernet).

To test the wall lights, find the dimmer that it is connected to and press the local toggle button for that channel - this will turn the channel on and your lights should come on. This will put the dimmer in over-ridde mode and the smalll LED's on the side will flash. Hold a local override button for a second or two to return the unit to C-Bus control.

Please be careful when working on the light fittings, a dimmer does not turn off the circuit and there will be voltge present at the terminals on the fitting.

Mick

 

It could be as simple as the button for the wall lights has been configured as a memory toggle dimmer, this means that it will turn on and off at the last level it was set, if the lights have been dimmed to say 1%(long press) and then turned off (short press) next time it is turned on it will come on at 1%. Try the button that you suspect controls these lights, when its indicator is on press and hold it for a few seconds, then release and press and hold for a few seconds again, you may see the lights dim up and then down again.

Also have you checked that the lamps in the fittings are not blown.

 

Thanks for the replies.

I've manually turned on each of the buttons on the dimmer - which has turned on every light in the house, apart from the one that I can't get working. I've also tried holding down the wall mounted buttons to see if it was a memory toggle, but no luck there either.

Would connecting to the C-Bus network and using the programmer be any help in this situation if I can't even turn on the light direct from the dimmer? If so, I'll have a read up and give it a try.

Are there any engineers in the South Manchester (UK) area on here?

edit: Also, I don't have the original programming of the lighting system - would this cause difficulties if someone needs to come our to fix it?

 

Sorry if it sounds too simple but have you checked the lamp as Peter Brown suggested?

 

Yep, I've replaced them with known working ones, but no luck .

 

What kind of wall lights are they? Can u put up a pic? Have u had a good look and checked for a switch on them? Also wire one up n plug into and outlet to make sure its working, or get a sparky to do that for you.. ;-)

If u have turned all the channels on via the modules and they didnt come on they are possibly not wired up, controlled by a cbus module hidden somewhere or dodgey lights..

Cheers..

 

Hi Ian

Maybe see if you can find someone to come out and look at it for you.

And see if they would show you how to use Toolkit if you are interested.

Regards
Daryl

 

They are really simple wall lights, just two bulbs on a pair of holders (pics attached). I've got identical ones in another room, which work and I've swapped them with to check they aren't a problem.

If a dimmer unit had a fault, is it possible that one channel just doesn't work on it?

Yeah I think I may have to do just that. It looks like it's not going to be a simple fix (that I can do anyway!).

 

Yes it is possible to blow one channel.

 

I havent had this experience with a CBus dimmer but an incandescent lamp mounted in an upside down position can short when it fails.
I have had this happen and destroy a regular dimmer mech.

Your picture didnt attach.

 

Sorry - I've edited the post and tried to attach them again.

If the channel has been destroyed via a short or something similar, is there a way for me to test this or wire it up on to another channel?

 

Yeah thats an upside down position for the lamp but I cant say for sure if that is what happened.

I dont want to give advice which would put you in danger but yes the channel could be swapped to test.

Obviously it would be switched by the switch which controls the channel you swap to.

I recommend using someone suitably qualified to do it.

Beware, light fittings are cheap and a short circuit somewhere in the wiring of the lamp may blow another channel.

 

Is swapping the channel something reasonably easy to do? Unless it's straight forward, then I think I'll need to call someone out.

Would it be possible to program the lights on to a new channel without having the original programming? I don't think I have a way to connect a PC to C-Bus (no RS-232, USB or spare network socket), so it could be hard if it can't be programmed without it. I've got white room switches with little red LEDs on them that light when pressed.

 

http://www.cleverhome.com.au/manuals/Clipsal-C-Bus2-Learn-Mode-Guide.pdf

If it hasnt been disabled you can program the dimmer in "Learn Mode".

And if there is a spare channel that could be used but honestly I think you are best to call someone out.

 

Thanks. I'll try and find an electrician familiar with C-Bus, but if I can't, then I'll give that a go .

 

You could buy or borrow a 240v sniffer. (pen that buzzes when in the vacinity of mains AC voltage). Find the output wires of the dimmer that you think are for the wall lights, and as you turn on/off with button on dimmer, listen to see if it is turning on/off the mains feed. If not then the dimmer is either dimmed down or has a blown channel. If it is working then listen at the light fitting.

 

Sounds like a good idea, I'll buy one of those pens tonight and see if the channel is live.

Is there a way to check if learn mode is enabled on my unit, as this would make it simple to swap channels. If not, it's going to be expensive to get the whole system re-programmed just for one switch, so I may buy a wiser unit instead and do it myself (is that sensible?).

 

Learn mode is enabled by default on all the units I have seen.

You can test that it is enabled by trying the steps in the link I gave you but you need to know which channel/wire goes to the light in question.

I only disable it within the "Toolkit" software so that no one can accidently change things.

I don't think a volt stick is the best tool to buy to test the channel.

Dimmers have some voltage on the channel even when they are turned off.

I recommend you call someone who can test the load at the dimmer to make sure it is connected and also not shorted somewhere.

To test the dimmer channel, if there is a spare channel swap the load to that and program it using learn mode.

 

Hi Ian
Also go and turn on all channels on all 5 dimmers by pushing the local overide buttons on each dimmer to make sure you arent looking at the wrong dimmer unit.
Then check your light again.