Weird problem with toolkit and old install software

Whilst trying to fault find my problem with a 2 key input unit I've found another really odd problem. I don't know if its the unit, toolkit V1.1.6, or a combination of the two or something else totally so have posted here as the issue only shows its head in toolkit.

Anyway what I found is if I did a network scan in toolkit V1.1.6 it would go away and find all the units but when it got to the last address 54 (a 4 key input unit) it would sit for about 1 minute before displaying all the units. If you then went to do anything (ping, try to get info, save etc) to ANY unit it would come back with a no response error. The last unit unlike all the others would not show its name or any of the details. In the C-gate console window there was an error everytime this unit was scanned. I couldn't cut and paste the lot but the jist of the error was "string index out of range:18"

By physicaly disconneting the unit from the network all scans would work fine and it was possible to make changes and save them to all the other devices on the network. Also the time to open the network seemed quicker and I didn't get any timeouts which I was getting 1/3 of the time when unit 54 was on the network.

In the C-Bus v2.7.7 software the unit could be saved to and changed without any problem and the config worked fine. What I did was delete the unit and re-add it with defult config. Back in toolkit the unit could then be scanned and all worked fine until I put its config in. When I went to save the saving dialogue box would come up but when the status got to 100% it would lock up for a minute or so and the above error was in the console. The configuration was in the unit and it worked fine, but I then had the problem that I couldn't change anything on any unit. Closing toolkit, re-opening and rescanning again showed the error and nothing worked. Everytime going to the old install software and saving the default config allowed the unit to be scanned again.

I won't go through the process I went through as it took me hours but in the end I found this key unit didn't like having key 2 configured to control the group which was on 05(hex). Putting that group on another key worked fine, and configuring key 2 to control other groups worked fine. But configure key 2 to control 05 killed tool kit every single time. Key 2 was configured just for plain old on/off so had nothing too fancy, likewise of the other three keys 1 was also on/off and the other two were on/off on a long press only.

The other thing I found was that if I tried to import the project from V2.7.7 into toolkit I would get an error saying the file was corrupt. So the project I was using in tool kit, I developed by using the default basic network and 'reverse engineering' from the C-bus scans. However once I changed the V2.7.7 project to not have group 05 on key 2 of that unit the project now imports perfectly.

As I said its really odd (and no I'm not smoking anything bad), do I have a sus unit, is there a problem with tool kit, is this a known issue, or do these two just not like each other on my network?

 

Thanks Ashleigh, the details are as follows:

1. part number is 5034N and it was made on 30/3/00. There is a number below the date, guess its a serial it is 57718. In V2.7.7 unit type is a KEY4 and in my project it is address 54.

2. Couldn't find the firmware in 2.7.7 but in tool kit it is 1.00, likewise all 5 of my 5034's are V1.00.

3. Screen shot of the console with the erro is attached as well as a second shot showing tool kit after the scan showing how the information for unit 54 is missing.

I've also attached the project. This copy is the one that when loaded to my network causes the problems. Key 2 on unit 54 is allocated to control group 05 (named front lights). What I found out playing this afternoon is if I configure any of my 5034's to try and control group 05 on key 2 they all fail, but the 5032's are fine. So guess its not a fault specificaly with the unit, but certainly something not quite right either!

 

Looks like a parsing issue by CGate of the string coming back from C-Bus

Excellent report with great detail and detective work! I've logged it and we'll get onto it. Should be easy to replicate now that you've done all the hard work!

 

Yes that is correct, only the minder. I will get those other files to you but that will be later tonight.

 

Hi Ashley,

I regret to advise that Toolkit and the Minder Interface are not compatible. Toolkit will only talk to PCI's and CNI's that have a firmware version of at least 2.0d.

We've tried to recreate the issue you're having locally and we cant. The most likely problem is the Minder Interface. I'm actually surpised you can even scan the Network with it.

I'm made mention of this a few times on the forum but I'll make it clearer, I'm very sorry for the time you've had to spend on diagnosing this issue.

 

Thanks for that Duncan, I feel like a dill because I do remember that being and issue and the reason why I hadn't installed any if the previous versions. The testing effort wasn't that much, as I am actually a tech and thats the kind of thing I do for a living anyway, and despite that I was fault finding another issue which I've written about in hardware faults. Who knows maybe the fact I was using toolkit through minder caused that problem too! And for the record everything but the issue I wrote about worked fine!

But that has me thinking though if you don't support minder in toolkit and you don't add new modules to V2 C-bus install software how do people who only have minder as their interface go about adding the new devices? Already the wireless and DLT devices are not in V2.7.9 of the install software. I'm guessing that the reason minder isn't supported is a higher level issue (at work we call it the 8th and 9th layer of the ISO model, politics and money/resources) and not a pure technical one.

Oh well sorry for wasting your time.

But one thing though regardless of me having minder as my interface my version 2xxx files should still import properly into toolkit should they not?

Ash

 

Alas, these people will need to purchase a PCI, CNI or Telephone Interface.

Heheh, 8th and 9th layer, I like that

The reason is to a large extent Technical.. the "PCI" inside the Minder unit is very old and has "issues" which would take a LOT of work inside C-Gate to sort out to a level that would satisfy us.

Not much time "wasted", we dug around for about 40mins this morning then noticed that the PC_MIND2 was the only interface, it was an good exercise to ease back into work of a Monday

The 2.x.x files SHOULD import fine, Daniel was looking into this this morning, he found that under certain circumstances when the Units node is showing the import can fail.. can you try an import again without the "units" node showing in the treeview and let us know if it fails?

 

Oh its a bugger having to buy a new interface they are not cheap at all! If some of the suppliers of the equipment I work on didn't support their old stuff they would loose a lot of business (talking PABX's and routers here), but by the same token it is the old stuff and the things the programmers have to do to make it work that sometimes makes the new stuff hard to program and work out. Guess its a trade off, hence the 8th and 9th ISO layer (We have other names for them too, but our management don't like them as they are directed at them and they are not clean for a public forum like this)

As for the import still no luck, not sure what I did the other day to actually get it to work. As I mentioned in the orginal post when I was working out the other issue I couldn't get the project to install so just used a scan of the network as the project. Later I did get it to import and open properly (or so I thought) but thought that was related to the other issue because it was after I had changed the groups in V2 that it imported fine.

I put my back-up copy into V2 and it fails to expand even after making the same changes I made the other day. I downloaded the files I put in my last post and they import fine and expand everytime. I have attached my back-up's in this post and they do not work at all including this time the C-gate tag directory.

This time I tried it with no projects at all so no chance of the 'units node' being open. The import says it worked, but its when trying to expand it to get the network and topology to show that it fails with a "Error 3046, Project failed to open, the project bay be corrupt or not a vaild project" There doesn't appear to be anything of interest in the c-gate window but have attached a screen shot and the project files again, including the tool-kit files.

Thanks again.

Ash