Wiser and 2 Measurement modules Problems

I have 2 measurement modules ID 1 channels 1,2,3,4 ID 2 Channels 1,2,3,4

Power Meter Manager
Analogue Power Meters
Measurement App Manager.

Add the 8 channels.

All ok can see the Power values.

Close

Power Meter Manager
Analogue Power Meters
Measurement App Manager.

8 channels are still there.

Close

Wiget Manager

Add 8 Cbus/Other Power Meter (Widgets 58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65)

Press OK

Save

Transfer project

4 critical Errors
Critical Error 215: Wigdet 62 has error. Widget has no power meter Selected
Critical Error 215: Wigdet 63 has error. Widget has no power meter Selected
Critical Error 215: Wigdet 64 has error. Widget has no power meter Selected
Critical Error 215: Wigdet 65 has error. Widget has no power meter Selected

Power Meter Manager
Analogue Power Meters
Measurement App Manager.

4 channels are there.

ONLY Module with ID 1 is there other one has gone.


Done this 5 times and getting nowhere ....

What am I doing wrong ?

Charles

 

You are only able to have 4 power meters (analogue and/or pulse) with Wiser and C-Touch. PICED is not enforcing this rule as you add analogue power meters, but does check it when you save or load the project. This will be fixed in an upcoming release of PICED.

 

Why the 4 power meter limit ? (Memory ?) Can we at least have 8

Is my only option C-touch Colour (has 20 limit.)

What about home gate what is its limit.




Charles

 

Storing 2 years of data takes a lot of memory.

No, sorry

HomeGate allows 20.

 

On the wiser screen I can only see 1 years history. Is it more on the other platforms ?? Now/Today/This week/THis month (then 12 months, month totals)


I was looking at home gate. Is the 2 network limit "any networks" or 1 wired and 1 wireless. the Measurement modules took me over 100 limit and had the bridge the network into two. So I have two wired networks now.

I saw home gate has a USB dongle. What a PAIN I wanted to run homegate on a virtual environment. USB over network costs $ just for a dongle.

Product suggetion. "Cbus Dongle." a dongle that plugs into the cbus network. NOT usb !!


Is there a way on "WISER" to get other measurement modules to display on the same page as the Energy Management modules SO you can get a complete "Now display" and just have 4 with the (+) to get the history. I can not see a way do a Measurement Widget

If not another suggestion.

Charles

 

You can only see the last 12 months on the power meter widget. On other units you can see more if you want. All of the history is available through logic if required.

Any type of network.

Alternatives are being considered.

Why would you want a measurement channel which is not recording power to be displayed on the power meter widget?

 

Hi Darren,

I also have a client with a similar situation.

He has a normal three phase supply to his house but has two independent solar arrays and so he needs to track 5 channels. He runs everything with Wiser and I just sold him 2 CMUs without realising the limitation.

Being it seems like a memory related issue do you feel the programmers could release a version allowing more ports to monitor for less history?

Realise this is a big ask and probably hard to accomplish as you don't want split software streams. Alternatively a history 'override' in the code when you go over 4 channels that automatically sets it back to say 1 year history (or whatever it needs to be to give it the necessary RAM)?

Bugger!!

Brad

 

Well I would love to record it all but due to the limitations this is the next best thing.

You record the important ones

but the other are more to see where all that power is going at a point in time

"I am using 9 kw of electricity" where.........

Look at the measurement... 2 KW lighting 2kw Computer UPS 3kw Laundry 2kw Air conditioning. (I dont need to record these)

Recording Solar IN, Wind IN, Grid IN (with the solar and wind via the same CT) giving total Grid IN , Total Property Usage


Then the 2kw UPS

there are 4 racks of equipment

ONE CT on each feed to each rack.

You can monitor the usage to each rack.

Like picture below



Also like the idea to have 1/2 the history and double the energy meters.


Charles

 

Wow Charles

That's some setup you must have there.

Id sure like to come around and take alook.

 

Changing from 2 years to 1 year of history would only save about 15% memory (giving less than one extra meter).

I think that I understand your other suggestion. I will try explaining it a different way and see if that is what you mean.

You need to be able to display the real-time power for lots of power meters (pulse or analogue) so that you can see at any time where your power is going. However, you only really need history for a few separate lots of data (like total of power circuits, total of solar panels, total of lighting circuits, total of heating/cooling circuits).

Having the ability to select whether a meter has its history stored will partly solve this problem. For example, you could have 10 analogue meters reading different circuits with a single one recording the total and only really need one lot of history data recorded.

The optimum solution might be to have the ability to have one or more measurements (analogue or pulse power meter) aggregated into a sub-total which will then have its history saved. If there were four (or ideally more) of these available, then you could have dozens of meters to give you real time data, and four lots of historical data to show various sub-totals. These sub-totals would then have a Widget for them to show the history, as we have now. The individual channels would have a Widget to show the real-time value, but without the + to show the history data.

Is this what you had in mind?

I have added this as issue number 22236

 

Hi Darren,

That would satisfy my client.

Thanks,

Brad

 

Exactly what I mean. This would satisfy all my requirement now and going forward to use the these measurement devices in computer rooms.

 

+1

I'm, looking at getting this power monitoring. But I'd like to expand to more than 4 circuits as well. More circuits = more sales of CIS black boxes. So Darren, this sort of rejig on the wiser widget and software side seems a no brainer to me..

 

I agree that it seems like a sensible thing to do, but it will take time and we are all very busy. We have started discussing it...

 

Thanks!

Darren, I don't wish to press the issue, but how much time would this likely take? Ballpark? 1 month? 6 months? More?

The reason I ask is one of time/money from the call out/electrical install point of view.

If I have to get an electrician out to map and identify all the power circuits, I might as well prepare and "circle" with the sensors all 8 circuits I want to monitor right now in preparation for 2 units...as long as I know it won't be months/years before we get this sensible funtionality...

There is a fair chance most people with cbus, have complicated power boards and circuits, largish electrics (power and load). Therefore large bills! So I won't be the only one in this position.

Cheers.

 

Neutrals

Dont forget the neutrals. Some times is is far easier (was in my case) to put all the CT on the neutrals of the circuit.

EG. Light/Power/Oven neutrals all came back to the same spot. A CT around all 3 was far easier than trying to get wires moved on the ACTIVES.

Also using darrens trick for the solar is was also far easier to put the main Neutral and the solar neutral together in a CT that measured the entire Property usage.

Charles

 

Great suggestions!

Ok Thanks for that Charlie.

Can I ask something else? The Neutrals idea is fantastic. This will apply to me big time.

1/ Dose it matter how close you get to the terminal block? Instal instructions on this?

2/ I have been told the "5th" Wiser meter widget is a sum of the total 4 that is being monitored. But you would need a CT around every circuit in the house to get a true total power use. Correct? If I can't get a CT around every circuit, the only way to get a true energy use of the whole house is to put a CT around the main power cable in, and ignore this "5th" widget. Right?

3/ What to monitor. I'm thinking the loads that really count. I mean they are the ones where you can really save power. So Air con, Pool pump, Kitchen Rangehood/gpo's, laundry gpo's all on individual CTs, and All inside lights, other gpo's, garage-outside lights, and finally Total power on the other CMU.

4/ And to CIS. Why not have a widget in the Wiser to simply switch between CMU's? OK you can't monitor both together, but why not a simply widget to not necessarily record, but just switch CMU's and view the loads?

Does this all make sense?

Cheers

Wap

Cheers

 

I really have no idea, but we don't comment on future releases anyway in general.

 

Wrappinghigh

RE (Q2)

Depends if you have solar


You need to look at this

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37007&postcount=17

Because the CT dont know which way the power is going.

If you make the Solar a "Generator" in the config it is possible the total can go -ve.

I am not sure is -ve is 100% supported the graphs dont seem to work. I asked the question

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7096

but no one has commented.



If you dont have solar then just putting one on the feed in is fine.

Charles

 

Ok.

No problem. I'll get the one CMU and 8 CT's and get the electrician to put them all on now....use 4 now, and leave the other 4....(waiting)...