Wiser Networking and Toolkit connection

I'm not the Wiser expert, however something you have described doesn't sound right..

In order to use Wiser to connect Toolkit to the C-Bus you need to connect on the CNI's port number, but the connection is to the *Wiser* IP address... ie you don't forward the port to the CNI.

The Wiser sees the connection on port 10001 and knows that this is for a Toolkit connection, and maps the traffic on that port to the CNI itself. If you want to connect from outside your network, you would forward 10001 in your edge router to the Wiser.

Nick

 

I still think if you have set up port forwarding *in the Wiser* to forward external connections on 10001 to the CNI, then it may be confusing the Wiser (which is trying to do the same automatically) when Toolkit is trying to access port 10001 from the WAN side.

The other thing to check (I'm not sure if this would also affect access from the LAN side) is that on the Wiser's Tools page (the one accessible though the Flash UI), that "Toolkit Remote Enable" (or something like that) is actually enabled (green).

Nick

 

Not quite.. the way the Wiser handles toolkit connections is that you tell it (in the PICED project) what port the CNI is on.

AIUI, the Wiser then assumes any connection to it on this port number is for the CNI, so it does that port mapping automatically. The important things are
a) that you are never making a connection directly to the CNI... the Wiser manages this, and
b) you don't have to set up any port forwarding in the Wiser (but if you have another edge router, and you want to be able to connect from outside that, you obviously need to set up the forwarding in that, but you forward the CNI port number to the IP address of the Wiser

Regardless... this doesn't appear to be your problem, as it looks like you've tried it with and without that port forward, and you are using the address of the Wiser and not the CNI itself.

I notice you're using Parallels.. I use VMWare Fusion myself with no problems, but it's possible there's some other networking wierdness going on (although it looks like it's just a bridged connection). This isn't my area of expertise though.

I'll ask some of the other guys here for some ideas.

Nick

 

Hi Wire Bug

Am a little concerned by the first part of you post about port forwarding the wiser for the CNI to work. Just to be clear. their is no need to use wiser Port forwarding functions for any of the remote/ WAN connections. these are all setup an enabled by simply enabling the function in the wiser FLASH UI tools page Under the remote access option.
Looking at the screen grab in your post i see no port forwarding which is good.

SO can i propose the following steps be taken to see if your problem can be resolved

1.Ensure their are no port forwarding rules for ports 10001, 8080, 80, 8336,8337,8888,8889,9000,9001 in the wiser configuration tab under applications & gaming port forwarding, also nothing under port triggering as well.
If you have anything for these ports configured please do steps 2 and 3 first and then remove them then continue with step 4.

2. Navigate to the Wiser Flash UI from a PC on the LAN side of wiser. and go to the tools/remote Access page. Note the state of the options may appear grey for up to 10 seconds before the true state will show. Wait for the indicator of each option to be either green or red before proceeding

3. If Enabled, then Disable the Projector Control option and wait for wiser to reboot.

4. Navigate to the Wiser Flash UI from a PC on the LAN side of wiser. and go to the tools/remote Access page and enable Projector Control option and wait for wiser to reboot.

5. Navigate to the Wiser Flash UI from a PC on the LAN side of wiser. and go to the tools/remote Access page and if Toolkit control option is enabled then disable it . Wait 60 seconds.

6. Navigate to the Wiser Flash UI from a PC on the LAN side of wiser. and go to the tools/remote Access page and if Toolkit control option is disabled then Enable it . Wait 60 seconds.

7. Using the PC on the WAN side of wiser you may first wish to try using telnet to connect to the cni. from command line on your PC enter telnet 192.168.32.230 10001 you should get a connection. to exit telnet press Ctrl+] and type quit

8. if telnet worked then try connecting with toolkit be sure to have quit telnet first.

I hope this resolves the issue

 

Hi Lenny

We are sorry that you spent a lot of time on this. So perhaps its worth the effort that I explain a few of the operations of Wiser in this post that might help others in the future. I do not feel that the problem you had was a major bug, but rather simply a misunderstanding of the operation of Wiser. If after you read this post you feel I am wrong then please post your argument so we can improve.

First let me start by saying that all of this is made so much more complex as Wiser can be set up in 3 different modes.

A. as an Edge Router.
B as Double NAT or a Router behind a Router.
C as a LAN Device.

It is also possible to have the CNI used by Wiser on any port (by default it is 10001).

It is a requirement (I think you would all agree) that Wiser provides a simple interface that allows the User (not just the installer but the end user too) the option to easily prevent remote access to the following features:

1. The General User interface (that is the Flash Based UI, and remote connection of devices such as iPhone)
2. The Ability to connect tools like Toolkit directly to C-Bus for the purpose of commissioning or monitoring the bus.
3. The Ability to upload or download a project file.

It is easy to see that some people can confuse the CNI as a device that is located behind Wiser and thus assume that in order to use it for a Toolkit connection, a Port forward must be established. Let me lay that thought to rest.. You don't!.

You should consider the CNI being used by Wiser a physical or internal part of the Wiser. The Wiser unit never releases its connection to the CNI, and since a CNI can have only one connection at a time, it is therefore not possible to connect any other service to a CNI that is being used by Wiser.

In an effort to make remote connections of the above services as easy as possible, an interface in the Wiser Flash UI under Tools, called "Remote Access" is available. The 3 options are:

1. Toolkit Control (Enabled/Disabled). Enabling this will allow connection of applications like C-Bus Toolkit or C-Bus Diagnostic Utility to C-Bus from a WAN, or remote connection using the port that has been defined for the CNI in the currently running project. Wiser will take care of any differences based on the mode of operation Wiser is in.

2. Projector Control (Enable/Disable). Enabling this will allow connection by "remote" Web Browsers and other Mobile Wiser Clients such as iPhone. Disabling this will prevent remote access of these services.

3.Project Update (Enable/Disable) Enabling this will allow connection of a "remote" PC using the PICED application permitting projects to up/down loaded to the Wiser unit and/or Colour C-Touch colour units located on the Wiser's LAN network.

Please note that these settings are only applicable to "Remote" connections... They play no part in accessing these services from the LAN.

So.. What constitutes a remote Connection?

- If Wiser is configured in Option A, ie as an Edge Router. In this case a remote connection is any connection that comes via the WAN port of Wiser, which for most cases will mean any connection from the internet.

- If Wiser is configured in Option B, ie as a Double NAT Router. In this case a remote connection is any connection that comes via the WAN port of Wiser, which for most cases will mean any connection from the internet, but also means any device that is connected to the LAN of the first Router. (I think this best describes the setup specific to Lenny's example in this post).

- If Wiser is configured in Option C, ie as a LAN Device. In this case a remote connection is any connection that comes from an IP address that is either the default gateway, or an IP address that is outside of the Wiser's subnet. An example of the later would be if Wiser has the IP address/subnet of 192.168.2.1/255.255.255.0 and the gateway address is 192.168.2.254 then any device connecting to Wiser with an IP address of 192.168.2.2 to 192.168.2.253 is local, and any other connection, including a connection from the gateway at 192.168.2.254, is considered remote.

I Hope so far this is not to confusing to anyone

SO in an effort to sum it up :
To use the services of Wiser from a remote connection there is no requirement to setup any port forwarding *on the Wiser unit*. It is all done for you by setting the state of the above mentioned buttons on the Tools/Remote Access page. I don't think it could be made any easier than that.

Port Forwarding is only ever required by the customers Router when the Wiser is installed as a LAN device, or in a double NAT configuration (refer to install guide).

Finally. Some reasons behind my instructions.

If you are having issues debugging a remote connection :

First, from a LAN connection. I first instructed you Enable or Disable projector control. This step was required because this action will force Wiser to save its current project configuration and re-boot. It will also alter any changes specific to remote connection for projector to be correct. As I do not know if you have things like power monitoring in the project, I included this step to ensure that you did not lose any project data. (I personally hate gaps in my power data!).

The final state of projector control should be enabled.

Second, regardless of the state shown by the button for the service you want enabled. Change it, wait 60 seconds, and if disabled, change it back and wait 60 seconds. The 60 seconds is just to make you wait for those of you that expect an instantaneous response.. no need to be a clock watcher :-D.

Once you have done this try the connection again.

Just a few last bits of advice.

A remote toolkit connection when established will block out all Wiser functions and stop the User Interface(s) of Wiser controlling C-Bus or seeing C-Bus events, so don't forget to disconnect at the end.

A reminder... Toolkit and Project transfer functions have no authentication. Please only enable these features when you intend to use them. I advise not to leave them permanently enabled.

And finally.. Please change your password for Wiser if you intend to have remote projector enabled. The default password is known by all, so do the right thing and change it.. it takes only a few seconds.

 

First Let me thank you for responding, and add that i would very much like all reply's to remain public as the contents is constructive and benefits every member of the forum who comes across it.

You make some excellent points. And i do agree that power cycling the unit should indeed fix your issue, Why it did not i do not know and i will make an effort to reproduce this issue and if i am successful i hope to provide an answer or solution. Issue Number is 24042.

In response to your efforts.
"* The first thing I did was REBOOT everything !!! (IMHO, this should have worked)" Assuming that the toolkit control showed as enabled prior to power cycle i Agree with you completely this should have worked.

* We thought perhaps it was a port forwarding issue, we tried all variations of port forwarding.
* We tried changing DMZ settings It was these two efforts that concerned me the most and it is the point i have tried to make in my previous post for the benefit of all other readers. The service that provides toolkit access to C-Bus resides on Wiser (not the CNI connected to wiser) thus port forwarding and DMZ on the Wiser unit play no part in making this feature work, Hence i went to such effort to explain how wiser operates mostly for the benefit of others reading the forum, I do not know what impact setting port forwarding options on the wiser configuration UI would have but i strongly suggest that for ports 80 8080 8888 8889 10001 8336 8337 9000 9001 you don't create any such rules on wiser at the risk of breaking its normal expected operation.

I Would just like to remind the readers again. that While power Cycling Wiser is a intuitive thing to try when something is not working. If it is possible to access the wiser. Forcing it to reboot by changing the Projector access has the added advantage of ensuring that information such as Power Monitor Data is stored and maintained. For some this may not be important. But as a regular observer and user of wiser myself. I hate losing changes made to my wiser UI especially Power History.

The Closing note has been a very helpful bit of information
Yesterday the issue reoccurred, specifically I got the error "Failed to open the Network?" from toolkit. As you instructed, I toggled the software settings of Remote Access and once again everything returned to normal. I do not know what creates the failed state, but it seems that I will be required me to periodically connect the the LAN side of the Wiser when a software toggle is needed. This is highly undesirable as the Wiser is in a remote location of a mechanical room. Any thoughts ?
If you could take a moment next time this occurs (assuming it will) what does the Flash UI show the status for toolkit Control. And assuming toolkit control is showing enabled if you cycle toolkit control only with a 10 second pause in between. Do you regain access.

As for all the extended efforts. They all seem quite logical steps. However i hope my first post in debugging the issue arms a few people with a quicker set of tools to help diagnose their problems. After all if you can not get a response with telnet your problem will not be with software.

 

The issue number is an ID in our internal bug-tracking database. It mainly serves as a signpost for other employees reading the posts, and prevents the creation of duplicate issues.

Unfortunately you can't track it directly, but you can find it in the change logs for releases or ask Technical Support or here on the forums for an update on the issue number.