wondering about on/off for scenes.

hey
ammature here asking questions again
how do i get a scene on a DLT to turn both on and off with the DLT button?
ie i have 2 sets of lights in the lounge room, downlights and centre lights
i make a scene where both groups turn on instant to 100%
is there a way to make that same button turn them off?
or do i have to make multiple buttons?

 

With a Ctouch colour (and maybe a PAC) it is possible...

 

Setup the scenes on a PAC, touchpanel or spare Saturn/reflection/dlt etc.

Setup a trigger so that a value of 255 will fire the 'On' scene
Using the same trigger set a value of 0 to fire the 'Off' scene

Back in your dlt set Secondary Application to trigger control and assign your previously made trigger to a button, set button type to on/off.

 

That sounds great. I have been wanting to do that for a while, but I think I am being a little slow on the uptake.

Would you be able to expand a little on the exact procedure? Maybe use exact terminology that I can match to the Toolkit software?

Thanks in advance (from us slow ones in the class).

Andy.

 

You dont need a scene, just use the on/off (or dimmer) and have the one button turn two groups on and off (or dim).

KISS

Mick

 

You are quite right, Mick. In the case of two lights it might be simpler to use an extra block in the DLT.

What about the case where a scene is required? How do we setup a single button to turn the scene on and also appear to turn off the scene?

Andy.

 

A PAC or other logic engine enabled device is required

 

I played with Scene toggle the other day and Filpee's suggestion works great. There is just one strange behaviour I cannot get around.

With the one button scene toggle, on my NEO, I set the indicator to be Status ON (Orange/None). The reason is I wanted this to be a 'hidden' button so that only I know it's got a scene function. Assume Trigger Control 2, 255 for ON and 0 for OFF.

Anyway, pressing the button switches the Scene ON and the LED goes orange - great. Pressing it again the LED goes OFF - great.

Now, I have a seperate scene called 'Inside Lights OFF' that can be triggered by a different Trigger Control group and AS, in my case Group 0, AS 16. If all the lights inside my house then turns OFF, the Scene button mentioned above still shows active (orange). Even sending a command via PICED/HomeGate, Trigger Control 2 level 0, it still shows orange. I have to manually press the button to get the LED to turn OFF, twice if I want the scene to go back on again.

Has anyone tried this before and found a workaround? My only alternative here is to completely 'hide' the scene button so I have no indication that it's either ON or OFF. The drawback is the pressing the button twice when I first want to trigger the scene. Doing the whole thing in Logic is probably my next step...

Thanks,
Ingo

 

I thought as much but tried various ways to work around it. My scenes are all in my PAC and the SceneIsSet function seems to work on a C-Touch only.

I think the following is my only alternative

Ingo

 

I think the "problem" you're seeing is because you're using two different Trigger Groups. Scenes are mutually exclusive to each other when they reside on the same Trigger Group, but as you pointed out, the un-related scene is a different Trigger Group.

Think of it this way - you're whole house off scene sends TG-0 to AS-16. You're original scene toggle button may have sent TG-2 to AS-255. You're 'House Off' scene doesn't have anything to do with the other trigger group - sure, it controls the same lighting group addresses, but because the triggers are separate, that's why your LED is not going to the off state.

A possible solution you could use is to add to your 'House Off' scene. If you add Trigger Group 2 in there and tell it to go to AS-0, then your LED should follow. You will only be able to do this if you're using a PAC or touchscreen to store this scene, and you will also get a warning in PICED about scenes triggering other scenes, or something like that, but it should work - you just want to be very careful.

HTH
-John

 

Hi John,

I tried that already, I put the Trigger Group 2 into my 'All Off' scene but it didn't make the LED go out. Like the previous post, I think the only way for a scene to detect that it's roken is via logic and the SceneIsSet function. Unfortunately I still have to test the SceneLevel method because I don't have a C-Touch, only a PAC.

Ingo

 

Waiting?

I know this is an old post, but has there been any updates in toolkit (or key units) to allow a single button on/off toggle of a scene stored on that key input unit (or another key input unit)?

If the logic engine is needed, does it have to be a PAC or CTC? Would an MKII touchscreen or Spectrum with logic engine do the job?

 

There has been no changes in this regard.

If you have a MkII or a Spectrum with logic, it will do the job nicely. You can also do it using the logic engine in a Wiser.

 

Scene toggle

Hi all

I, too, am very keen to get scene toggle into my installation.

I need a bunch of lights to be set at a pre-determined level but other than that only need to switch them on and off from that level (ideally from a couple of switch points). I really don't want a huge bank of buttons on the wall as no-one would remember what they are all for.

I have a Wiser unit coming tomorrow but have no knowledge of the logic programming language. Would someone be able to give me a start with an example script? That would be very much appreciated. I'm sure I could get there in the end but it might take a few days and buckets of tears and tantrums.

All the best

Duncan

 

Filpee's suggestion (third post in this thread) will toggle between the groups being off, and the groups being set to a scene. The only problem is that the LED indication does not show if the scene gets broken (as described by Ingo). If this is acceptable, then your problem is solved.

If the indicator state matters, then here is one way to do it:

On your key unit, you will use two different group addresses - one controlled by the key, and a separate one for the LED. For my example, the key controls trigger group 1 with an On/Off key function, and the LED is set to show the status of Group 3. Here is how that looks in ToolKit:



In a touch screen, PAC or Wiser, create the two scenes:
1. The "Off scene" is triggered by trigger group 1, action selector 0. It switches off the groups in the scene and also switches off trigger group 3.
2. The "On scene" is triggered by trigger group 1, action selector 255. It switches on the groups in the scene and also switches on trigger group 3.

In the touch screen, PAC or Wiser logic, add this code:

Code:

once not SceneIsSet("On Scene") then
  SetCBusState("Local", "Trigger Control", "Trigger Group 3", OFF);

 

Darren

Thanks so much for that. Really useful. I am getting my head round the concept of Trigger Groups and Action Selectors (not to mention the Logic Engine language) but your example helps very much to make it clear to a newbie such as me.

Many thanks

Duncan

 

Darren

Sorry, I must be missing something from your excellent description.

I created three Trigger groups in the Logic Engine (which saved to my Toolkit project file). These are saved in the Trigger Group application group folder (202).

However when I try to simulate your screenshot by selecting one Trigger Control with an ON/OFF function in the Saturn KEY dialog box (in Toolkit), I only get the options of the groups in the Lighting groups folder (056). I can't see or select any of the Trigger groups in folder (202).

I'm sure I am making a very basic mistake - can you help me out?

Many thanks

Duncan

 

The Application Address that is being used by the unit needs to be changed from the Lighting Application to the Trigger Control application.

If you are using a Saturn unit you need to go to the Unit Identification tab (the first one) and select the Secondary Application as Trigger Control. You then need to assign the key to the Secondary Application. You do this by clicking the green 'P' just to the left of the Group Address drop-down box. It should change from a green 'P' to a blue 'S', denoting that the key is using the secondary application. Once you've done this, proceed with Darren's example as before.