Yet another LV transformer question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by nexp, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. nexp

    nexp

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    I'm in the end stages of planning for a new home in the US. I'm planning on using about 70 LV Halogen downlights, and can't decide between magnetic and electronic transformers. I thought I was settled on Electronic due to greater efficiency (I plan on using the 35W IRC lamps), and I could only find one manufacturer that offers IC cans with electronic transformers. Found out the model of tranny they use:Lightech LET-60

    Tranny manufacturer doesn't know the capacitance; local CBUS support says transformers over here don't have the same capcitance problems, but they are investigating.

    Then, I found another line (Iris by Cooper), which provides the following details about their transformer:

    "Truvolt? toroidal transformer with dual-output taps for
    proper 12.0V operation. Dimmer tap compensates for
    inherent voltage loss from dimmers, resulting in 30%
    more lumens than traditional laminated transformers.
    Toroidal design, with 90% or greater efficiency, features
    a rolled one-piece continuous core of M3 grade grain oriented
    silicon steel complete with an integral thermal to
    protect against overheating and ensure quiet operation.
    For dimming, use dimmers rated for electromagnetic
    transformers.

    ENERGY DATA
    120V Input
    Lamp Input Operating
    Watts Watts Current
    20 23 .19
    35 41 .34
    37 42 .35
    42 47 .39
    50 57 .48"

    Questions:

    1)Does this look like a good alternative to electronic transformers in terms of function and efficiency? I'm curious if this "dimmer tap" would fight the dimming curve of the CBUS Dimmer Does anyone know what this is, and how it might work?

    2)I've read here that using a lower wattage lamp on a magnetic transformer results in a voltage increase that seriously decreases the life of the lamp. Such a voltage increase would increase the brightess of the lamp, would it not? Wouldn't lowering the max dim level compensate for this, and restore the lamp to its correct voltage, brightness and color (with perhaps a slight loss in efficiency)?

    Thanks!
     
    nexp, Jun 3, 2009
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  2. nexp

    NickD Moderator

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    This is entirely possible... the capacitance is there to make the transformer meet EMC limits imposed by CE (European) standards. FCC requirements are significantly less stringent... which is one of the reasons why the US versions of the C-Bus dimmers can do double to current per channel in the same package.

    What is an IC can?

    41W input for 35W out is about 85% efficient, which is better than a normal iron core LV transformer, but probably not as good as an electronic one. That said, there are other factors such as life and noise to consider... so it might be a good alternative.

    I think the "dimmer tap" is just increasing the output voltage a little to compensate for the traditional reduced maximum you get when using a dimmer.. Most dimmers never go to 100% conduction... ours typically go to about 85%... and typically you will not notice this (other than in the doubling of your lamp life). If you design your lighting from day one to use dimmers, then this shouldn't be an issue.

    I haven't heard this before... theoretically all magnetic transformers do have a finite "load regulation" where reducing the load raises the output voltage, however it's a bigger problem in smaller transformers. I'm not sure how much this would affect lighting transformers (they're not what I would consider "small", but then it doesn't take a big increase in voltage to affect lamp life.

    The best solution is to pick the right transformer. In my house I use the 35W IRC lamps, but I've put 2 on a 70VA transformer or 3 on a 105VA transformer to maximise the overall efficiency.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jun 4, 2009
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  3. nexp

    nexp

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    I thought this was because at 120v you'd have to double the current to get the same power. Only being able to have 120W per channel would make the product far less attractive!
    A recessed light housing rated for direct contact with thermal insulation (Insulated Ceiling).
    I saw this at the end of This Post
    I was thinking of this, but I figured having a transformer in each housing would make it more practical to, in the off chance this is ever possible, replace the transformer with an LED driver and convert the (permanently installed) fixture to LED. I figured on pre-wiring for possible future DALI control of LED drivers as well. I'm sure they'll come up with a good phase-chopping solution, but it's only a bit of extra wire that would be impossible to pull later.

    Sounds like this might be the solution. I was shying away from magnetic before, due to the inefficiency and potential for buzzing. Some of the other manufacturers specifically warn against using magnetic transformers in residential applications due to noise issues.
     
    nexp, Jun 4, 2009
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  4. nexp

    NickD Moderator

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    Ah.. understand. Over here we have separate insulating enclosures that accept a range of fittings. Like this. These are currently optional AFAIK, but should be mandatory IMHO.

    Funnily enough I almost directed you to that same post for a good discussion of this topic... I missed that bit myself. JohnC knows his stuff, so it obviously is a concern.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jun 5, 2009
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